RAG Party this Sat 10th Nov (1 Viewer)

[Shorty]

God, you are so sexist.

Oh you *tee hee*, I think you'll find you're the sexiest. rarrr

 

[the strange guy]

broken record, anyone?

Here's a few

 

[mazzyianne]

Ah... missed this thread somehow, late night internetting...
Um oly I swear I talked to u about this a while ago. Right?
The article (as i read it) actually was saying if u feel uncomfortable around a person you should get out of that situation. Like not to worry about offending anyone, just get out of there and talk to them again if you want when you're feeling better/sober/safer whatever.

That's what I took from it. I think it's weird some people (only about 3 in fairness) fixated on a few lines of one short insert-box in one article (written by one member of an un-borglike group who have individual thoughts and ideas) to obsesses over and dismissed the whole magazine/group over that.
Weird.

Anyways, party time!! Got the night off work and I hear this Ophelia Hip Hop lady is amazing so I can't freaken wait!

 

[pete]

Here is the lovely cover of RAG no.2.

I'm sure you can get a look at RAG no.1 at the launch if you want to read any articles from it. Hopefully all articles from no.1 will be on-line soonish. Nice to know you were checking the site anyway, hopefully while you were there you took a read of some of the other pieces?

Hope this image is attached ok...

apart from the ransom note stuff, that cover image is deadly

 

[Carlow Punks!]

apart from the ransom note stuff, that cover image is deadly

Hannah Hoch

 

[the strange guy]

Um oly I swear I talked to u about this a while ago. Right?
The article (as i read it) actually was saying if u feel uncomfortable around a person you should get out of that situation. Like not to worry about offending anyone, just get out of there and talk to them again if you want when you're feeling better/sober/safer whatever.

We talked about it at Ror's birthday. In fairness I know more than three people who had a problem with the article. I think it was an inconsiderate piece, at least how I interpreted it. I'd even go as far as to say it was misleading in that it was offering advice about who to watch out for but the reality is that you can't spot a potential attacker easily. It can be more likely that the guy who seems perfectly nice to everyone can be a rapist rather than a boisterous drunk. I wouldn't want anyone to think I might attack them because I've had a few jars, and I was shouting dirty jokes across the room.

You know my own experiences with this, but I'll go through it quickly for everyone else. Ailbhe (my aforementioned commited wombyn life partner goddess) was attacked while she slept in the same room as ***** ****** after a party, a guy I've known since I was 12 and who you and Ailbhe have both known for years. Nobody could ever have guessed he'd have it in him to do anything like that. There were no warning signs in his behaviour, his personality... nothing about this cunt could have told anyone he'd be a 'potential rapist'. But it happened. And it happened before. Nobody knows exactly how long he'd been like this. Now he's left the country because he knows what will happen, but that's another story.

People can and have made their own decisions about the article. Whether or not the article tainted the whole first issue of RAG is a personal opinion and I don't think you or anyone in RAG should take it so personally. You can't please everyone and just because a few people weren't huge fans doesn't mean these people are anti-feminist or think that RAG is a stupid idea.

I don't know anyone who sees RAG as a 'borglike' entity but many people found it segregationist to exclude male contributors, especially because this is an anarchist group. I don't know if that policy has changed. Like I said, these are personal opinions and people are entitled to say what they think.

Anyway, good luck with the party tonight!.|..|

 

[pete]

i've edited out the name from that post. probably best for all involved not to be making accusations like that on a public forum.

 

[Corm]

i've edited out the name from that post. probably best for all involved not to be making accusations like that on a public forum.

???

 

[pete]

???

??? what?

 

[taubstumm]

hey oly... in the interests of research, i went and got rag #1 down off the shelf to find this controversial article; i'm presuming that you're referring to 'rape culture', which starts on page 16. the article is a densely-spaced five-page essay -- say a few thousand words -- with footnotes and four sidebars. one of the sidebars has the heading "if you see these behaviours in a person, take care", followed by a list of eleven traits, mostly about macho and violent behaviour.

you're absolutely right to draw attention to the fact that sexually violent people can have pretty much any personality type. however, i think it would be fair to say that it's a mischaracterisation of the intent and scope of the original article to call it "the 'how to spot a potential rapist' article". if nothing else, it's not even an article; it's an add-on to a larger and more comprehensive piece. if you're going to call people on their shit, be fair in how you characterise their points of view.

 

[the strange guy]

Fair enough. I was looking for the piece online as I hadn't (and still haven't) read it for years. I'm sure time has blurred my interpretation but I'll definitely read it again when I get the chance.

 

[taubstumm]

well, seeing as i have my camera here as well...

monster-sized jpeg of a photo of the magazine here, showing two of the four pages of the article and two of the sidebars. the sidebar on the right is the one i presume you're talking about.

 

[Bastard Eoin]

I remember that article...one of the "sidebars" said that if you drink or take drugs for no celebratory reason you are in fact a filthy rapist.

Feck!!

 

[the strange guy]

They were the pages I was talking about, s. Reading it again I can see I went overboard. It's clearly a list of traits to look out for and not the 'spot the potential rapist article' I somehow remembered. I definitely think that using this list as a strict basis for deciding who is safe to hang out with will mean being a living the life of a hermit in Dublin, but there isn't anywhere to suggest that anyone should.

What I remembered from the article was that it suggested that people with occasional mood swings, who would dole out slags, take drugs and binge drink could possibly be a rapist. This would mean I'd have to dump most of my mates! But as I said, it's not like it's trying to be a definitive guide.

I've been too harsh on the whole piece though. I'm still not mad about it, but so what. I hope everyone involved can see where I'm coming from and also see I wasn't trying to belittle RAG and what it stands for but just trying to tackle a very sensitive matter in a very insensitive way, which is how I nearly always do things!

 

[Janer]

Reading that article I get the visions of Imams preaching stuff from The Finsbury park Mosque.

 

[mazzyianne]

We talked about it at Ror's birthday. In fairness I know more than three people who had a problem with the article. I think it was an inconsiderate piece, at least how I interpreted it. I'd even go as far as to say it was misleading in that it was offering advice about who to watch out for but the reality is that you can't spot a potential attacker easily. It can be more likely that the guy who seems perfectly nice to everyone can be a rapist rather than a boisterous drunk. I wouldn't want anyone to think I might attack them because I've had a few jars, and I was shouting dirty jokes across the room.

You know my own experiences with this, but I'll go through it quickly for everyone else. Ailbhe (my aforementioned commited wombyn life partner goddess) was attacked while she slept in the same room as ***** ****** after a party, a guy I've known since I was 12 and who you and Ailbhe have both known for years. Nobody could ever have guessed he'd have it in him to do anything like that. There were no warning signs in his behaviour, his personality... nothing about this cunt could have told anyone he'd be a 'potential rapist'. But it happened. And it happened before. Nobody knows exactly how long he'd been like this. Now he's left the country because he knows what will happen, but that's another story.

People can and have made their own decisions about the article. Whether or not the article tainted the whole first issue of RAG is a personal opinion and I don't think you or anyone in RAG should take it so personally. You can't please everyone and just because a few people weren't huge fans doesn't mean these people are anti-feminist or think that RAG is a stupid idea.

I don't know anyone who sees RAG as a 'borglike' entity but many people found it segregationist to exclude male contributors, especially because this is an anarchist group. I don't know if that policy has changed. Like I said, these are personal opinions and people are entitled to say what they think.

Anyway, good luck with the party tonight!.|..|

Cheers, the party was deadly, got home at 7.30 from the post party party...
Working tonight.. argh! I'm sleepy now and have 9 hours to go...

I guess I find it hard not to take some of the criticisms personally, well, not the criticisms themselves but the way they're expressed. Of course we're never going to please everyone, goes without saying. We got a fair bashing from some anarcho syndicalists (i think) about out lack of class analysis which was expressed as snide remarks on an internet forum. That didn't bother me too much and was taken on board as a fair enough criticism and responded to in this issue.
I guess it's when you know people and they could talk to you or write you an email (I'm not talking about any one peron here coz the women-only thing I know lots of people have a problem with) but instead you hear back through the rumour mill or read nasty shit on the internet.
Owensie wrote us a long e-mail and I dunno if it got fully explained or anything, we thought long and hard about the involvement of men and have good well thought out reasons for being as we are. He came in and did a workshop for us about gender and socialisation too which i missed but I heard it was cool.
So yeah, I totally see where you're coming from with what you're saying about ailbhe's experience (and from my own experiences). It's a totally valid point but maybe some of what the article saying got lost in the rumour verion.
Of course people are entitled to say as they think, I just wish it could be done in a constructive way. We're only learning as we go and hopefully we'll have loads more discussions this year.

 

[taubstumm]

Reading that article I get the visions of Imams preaching stuff from The Finsbury park Mosque.

oh janer you old cutey. for the last while i've been using an abe simpson voice in my head when reading your posts, it's great.

"that's not real punk rock!"

 

[Janer]

You look as sexy as ever in your photos too!
Your so photogenic and full of ideas with your photography!
Been checking 'em!
Honestly!!

 

[taubstumm]

great, wanna give me loads of money to take some for you?

 

[pete]

well, seeing as i have my camera here as well...

monster-sized jpeg of a photo of the magazine here, showing two of the four pages of the article and two of the sidebars. the sidebar on the right is the one i presume you're talking about.

that's one sharp pencil