Pt. 2 Against His Will - Notes on the New Gay Predator (2 Viewers)

[egg_]

> I think that any sexual assualt is (quite rightly) looked on with the same horror be it a man , woman or child

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> I totally disagree with you and I base my disagreement on the volumes and volumes of images of sexual domination of women and the promotion of aggresive sexual(hetero) male behavior I see in popular entertainment and other media

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> Gimme a few examples

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> Rap videos come to mind. Rock videos come to mind. Lynx deodorant commercials come to mind. Simple example here Egg is the portrayal of men with multiple sex partners as studs and women with multiple sex partners as sluts


Don't want to harp on about this Thomas
But there are a number of possible explanations for the stud versus slut thing, and your theory that it's evidence that society thinks it's ok to rape women is among the least plausible

I think this whole thread distilled comes down to this:
We all acknowledge that there are oppressors and oppressed in our society.
Some of us think that it is desirable for the oppressed to dream about themselves becoming oppressors.
Some of us think it is not.

 

[stunning]

I think this whole thread distilled comes down to this:
We all acknowledge that there are oppressors and oppressed in our society.
Some of us think that it is desirable for the oppressed to dream about themselves becoming oppressors.
Some of us think it is not.

Hmmm...this might be a nice place to put this thread to rest. I'll just add to your closing synopsis...which seems to be a brief discussion of "what is freedom of oppression and what does it look like?"

Its funny when we (generally speaking here, not me, egg or thumped...the collective societal We)...when we talk about dynamics of economics its ok to dream about overthrowing our oppressors and making them work for us and if we can't break free of the oppression then even killing them is an ok fantasy...if that doesn't work, than maybe we'll try to become one of the oppressors...all (ok, some, not all) of this is cool...but not when we talk about dynamics of gender and dynamics of sexuality. The oppressed must not try to define what freedom looks like for themselves...the oppressors will tell you what your freedom should look like. There, now I'm off sounding like a whiny prat again.

I want to go to bed...

I remain yours, free to fantasize,

Cho

 

[turboman]

Rap videos come to mind. Rock videos come to mind. Lynx deodorant commercials come to mind.

Can someone else here who's taken Women's History 101 in University help me out here? I'm late for work.

I think we have just found out where your bizzare outlook on life comes from. Perhaps you should hang with some rational people for a change and leave the ranting man haters of the women's history/studies sorority to their own delusions.
I've meet these types before and want they profess is not healthy and nor is their world outlook. Many of them view consensual sex between husband and wife as rape for goodness sake! The rest of what they prattle on about is so paranoid as to make the ufo and black helicopter brigade seem plausible in comparison.

Your use of pop culture and ads is unfair as those who still believe in real culture find these dumbed down images of primative origin a drain on collective intelligence.
I would like to have some examples from traditional western culture (ie pre 1960s) where men sleeping with multiple women partners was acceptable while the reverse was not.

I am not however holding my breath given your self awarded epithet.

 

[spiritualtramp]

Possibly...

The other possiblity is that they have a very exciting fantasy life and recognize the eroticism of power, power exchange and power play...and choose to play with that eroticism in a safe, responsible, enjoyable, consensual way.

I detect cultural differences here .

I don't think any irish person would post this statement on thumped .

 

[spiritualtramp]

I want to say something snide now about cultural norms in Ireland in relation to talking about our sex lives, but I won't because it doesn't seem very nice...but I want to.

what were you going to say ? I'm intrigued !

 

[stunning]

what were you going to say ? I'm intrigued !

I don't even remember, but I'm sure it was pompus and I come across arrogant enough even without trying...so I'll just let that one lay...

There are definitly cultural issues going on here, at least for me...

I choose to respect the cultural differences and work towards keeping an open mind while still trying to share a little of myself and hope that what I have to offer may be of value here.

A very difficult balancing act...thanks for everyone's patience.

 

[kahlo]

I recently saw a "documentary" about lesbian sex. Some of the lesbians on that programme sounded like yon playwright. Lesbians are "liberated" now and lesbian power is growing within society etc... In then went on to describe how many of these newly empowered females were getting into the porn industry and setting up businesses selling adult toys.
The doco also foccussed a lot on dildos and strap ons and other items. This to me, along with the above mentioned play does not seem to reflect a maturing homosexual identity and community but rather some sad individuals with problems of self worth. The attempt to shock in both cases is obvious.
QUOTE]
.... man I knew I should have looked at a computer recently...

Ohhh dear. Poor turboman's delicate masculine sensibilities have been offended by an over-earnest (and hilarious) Channel 4 documentary that promised to tell "The Truth About Lesbian Sex" and then didn't deliver any girl-on-girl action. Am I right???

Seriously though....
Are these women "sad individuals" because they buy sex-toys? Are you implicitly saying that the adult toy business does quite well out of dykes because all they really need is a good .... (yawn)? What's wrong with taking a trip to a sex-shop (a nice brightly lit one) together and buying something to have fun with later? Oftentimes these toys end up getting discarded after a few uses anyway. Sorry to disappoint on that score. The novelty wears off...

There were some sad individuals in that documentary, notably the delusional pair from SF who were convinced that women didn't know what to do with one-another when the lights went down til they came around to tell them how to do it...or the line-up of stereodykes that had to play pick-the-closet or whatever they called it. But while people like you see a show like that as a sign of how empowerment is not real somehow, and how all of us gay girls actually have low "self-worth" - because the woman in the programme was looking for real woman-produced girl/girl porn films (as an example) that tell it like it is, and not like how male directors like to imagine it to be. How does this rate as pathetic? I think it's bloody smart and long overdue, the porn (as you insist on calling it) industry, let's call it the sex industry and lose your label, with regard to heterosexual women has also copped on in that regard over the past few years. Women being involved in the sex industry, actively sourcing product of a better standard that has been made professionally and with as little exploitation as possible is better all round than the way things were even as recently as half a decade ago. Nice big splashy spread in the Observer mag about it yesterday and nary a lesbian with low-self esteem in sight. Shocking! Or are women not supposed to have sex lives, or fantasies, or buy toys, or watch porn.... damn, there was me thinking we'd all been set free by Carrie and the gals in SATC!

Oh and by the way, you were looking for examples of where in "traditional" pre-1960s culture it was ok for men to sleep around but not for women? I presume you were taking, as they say around these parts, the stipe? That cannot have been a serious question, because if it was you have some serious, er, blinkers, on. And me typing any more is not going to loosen them. But just for the heck of it, go back to the divine mes (laws) of Ancient Sumer circa 3000BC (that should be traditional enough) and draw a straight time-line through from there to here. Pick any time on that line in any set of laws (or religious traditions that have informed the prevalent religions of Ireland today) and you'll pretty much land somewhere that was the case. The Koran, the Bible, The Zohar plus Talmudic and Christian law all expressly prohibit "wantonness", especially of the female kind, in fact the term is usually only applied to women nowadays.

As for the "man-haters" comment, all I can say is, I didn't study any of that stuff that you seem to feel would bracket me in with them in college, but it seems you're a bit too ready with your stereotypes, so I guess readily identifying myself as gay would?
What a pity for your hypothesis then that I don't.

Bored now.

Kahlo.

 

[turboman]

Seriously though....
Are these women "sad individuals" because they buy sex-toys? Are you implicitly saying that the adult toy business does quite well out of dykes

There were some sad individuals in that documentary, notably the delusional pair from SF who were convinced that women didn't know what to do with one-another when the lights went down til they came around to tell them how to do it...
Kahlo.

I saw about 15 minutes of this programme; most of the part about gaydar and some bits from other sequences including the woman who was showing her parents her merchandise and the vagina in a thermos flask bit. Maybe the rest of the show was better but it seemed pretty flaky to me.

I do not think that people are sad because they go to sex shops but I do think people that film themselves with their sex toys are.
I also think that people who go into graphic detail about rape fantasies, sado-masichism and other forms of sexual violence are also sad.

As I didn't watch the whole programme what is SF; not sinn fein eh?

 

[kahlo]

As I didn't watch the whole programme what is SF; not sinn fein eh?

En bref, San Francisco, though judging from the amount of delusions they displayed it may as well have been shorthand for Science Fiction (I kept hoping one of them would start to malfunction and they'd turn out to be woefully malprogrammed fembots or something...but then I'm just weird like that).

Now I'm off to iron my papally inspired "evil" t-shirt *chuckles gleefully*...

ciao,

K

 

[Willie Willions]

Damn, I thought that the article was about a new camped up Predator, as in The Predator from movie-land. Good article though!

 

[ElderLemon]

Against his willy....

Er, what's this discussion got to do with Politics? Anyway having an attention span that would make a Goldfish blush, I read roughly 30 seconds, and gathered the general gist of the proceedings - I think - so my contribution is as follows :

Nope.

Having got that off my chest, I'm reminded of an anecdote about Sly Stone's monkey (an actual monkey, not a pet name for his mickey) which used to have constant fights with Sly Stone's bulldog. Anyway, one day the bulldog goes for the monkey, the monkey (who is clearly a quick learner) runs into the kitchen, jumps up, grabs a knife, jumps on the dog, impales the poor fucker, and having it suitably immobilised, manipulates it into an appropriately receptive position and rapes the fuck out of it.

So, was the monkey's actions motivated by (a) continual and obsessive brooding on perverted trans-species rape fantasies or (b) nibbling far too many of those funny coloured nuts and weeds he found under Sly's bed?

Discuss.

 

[stunning]

Anyway, one day the bulldog goes for the monkey, the monkey (who is clearly a quick learner) runs into the kitchen, jumps up, grabs a knife, jumps on the dog, impales the poor fucker, and having it suitably immobilised, manipulates it into an appropriately receptive position and rapes the fuck out of it.

So, was the monkey's actions motivated by (a) continual and obsessive brooding on perverted trans-species rape fantasies or (b) nibbling far too many of those funny coloured nuts and weeds he found under Sly's bed?

Discuss.

Go monkey!!!!!

!baggyyyy

ps. He went monkey on his ass!

 

[Beanstalk]

Its not illegal to be a paedophile...it's illegal to have sex with children. There is a big difference and I think we have to be careful here.

Yeah?

You can be branded a paedophile without having sex with children...ask Tim Allen, Gary Glitter etc.

So it looks like some perverse desires have been criminalised already , which may encroach on your "Freedom to fantasy" policy. I understand that the crime is the act of downloading the images, and not for simply harbouring the desires...I'm just highlighting the fact that it is illegal to be a paedophile.

 

[stunning]

You can be branded a paedophile without having sex with children...ask Tim Allen, Gary Glitter etc.

So it looks like some perverse desires have been criminalised already , which may encroach on your "Freedom to fantasy" policy. I understand that the crime is the act of downloading the images, and not for simply harbouring the desires...I'm just highlighting the fact that it is illegal to be a paedophile.

Being branded a whore...a slut...a fag...a paedophile...
Whatever...that's all about other people's judgements.

Re: downloading certain images...yes, that is a crime. To be in possesion of certain types of imagery such as child pornography makes you guilty of the charge of possession of illegal material(sic). Still, its not for being a paedophile. There is no law about desire. There are laws about actions, such as possession or engagement.

Yeah?