...our survey said. (1 Viewer)

[pete]

Right.

A Yes or No question:

Should the gig listings page include gigs by bands "of interest" when said bands are on "majors" or are put on by the MCD's / Aiken Promotions etc?

Support your answer with relevant examples blah

 

[baseball fury]

No.

Why? Because these people/bands have advertising budgets and people working for them to promote their gigs. Pete, you pay for all this yourself and do this in your spare time... why should you help these bands when they pay for it elsewhere.

Even though I go to some of these gigs and like some bans on majors/who use big promoters, I would be bitterly disapointed if thumped began listing them.

 

[Hector Grey]

do it pete. if only to enrage fogarty.

 

[andy]

ha - i'm sorry 'hector gray'
but i'm not 'baseball fury'.
i'm andy.

dont make me 'expose you'
i'll do it you know.........(maybe)

 

[germ]

no, please.

 

[Johnny S. Legend Man]

If they're of interest, then it should be obvious.
They're of interest.
Thus making them relevant to this site.
Post the fuckers.

 

[Keeror]

A question for you, Pete:
Do you want thumped to be a rival to the likes of the Event Guide, dealing with everything that goes on, or do you want it to be strictly for those bands/events/etc, which are independent in as true a sense as is possible?

I would say the latter, and that there's no need to replicate the work of others, so no, I don't think you need list major label bands in major label venues put on by major label promoters.

No.

 

[snap-apple]

hi pete,
i think yeah stick 'em up if you think they're relevant independant acts from other countries or if the support is likely to be a local act. if they're just major bands on their own i'd say nah.
so that's a yes i guess.

 

[dudley]

well, you could always put up all their gigs, then kids who usually use entertainement ireland or the event guide to find out what's on might start using thumped. result might be that they'll see independent gigs listed as well, and maybe come along sometime.

fact, it makes no odds to mcd if their shows are listed here, but it might be beneficial for the underground if there is increased traffic to see listings here
.


Should the gig listings page include gigs by bands "of interest" when said bands are on "majors" or are put on by the MCD's / Aiken Promotions etc?

 

[pete]

ahh jesus now i'm just MORE confused..........

 

[pad]

i go with dudley, smart lad is our dudley.

 

[undo]

um... i'd be of the considered opinion that there really shouldn't be listings of major/fake indie gigs...
problem 1: where to draw the line. david kitt has played a hope gig. he's playing a gig soon with paul o'reilly which is basically a continuation of the witnness gig=giant guinness ad version of alternate reality. do we list that and give guinness free ad space? nothing against david or paul, just against guinness and aiken promotions. i'll probably go to the gig itself but i wouldn't want it listed here.

or another example; kittser plays hope gig. kittser plays with bellX1. bellX1 play with bon jovi. do we list that? (i mean beyond the urge to do it out of a desire to rekindle memories of gleeful-childhood-rocking-out to the jovi. obviously.)

problem 2: subjectivity. who decides if a gig is 'of interest'? it can be pretty objectively assessed if a gig is independent or not. it cannot be objectively assessed if a gig is 'of interest'.

problem 3: free advertising. mcd already cover up our posters and put on bands even when the bands themselves don't want to be involved in a corporate promotion (godspeed being the primary recent example). why give them free advertising here?

problem 4: the idea that listings for profit-motivated events will increase traffic to thumped, as suggested by dudley, is not necessarily true (why would people come out of their way to a site they don't necessarily know about in order to hear about gigs they'll already be able to find out about somewhere else?) and definitely disengenuous as an argument. if more people *were* to visit thumped more as a result in a change in listings policy, why would they be here? would it be from an interest in things independent, or an interest in finding a listing? and if they are solely here to find a listing, why would they be interested in the 'underground' at all? surely this would be a fundamental abandonment of beliefs which would serve only to turn the site into a slightly hip & quirky (such marketable commodities!) advertising hoarding?

i go to a lot of mcd/aiken events already. people know where to find out about them. the companies aren't exactly subtle in their promotions. i don't want them on thumped.

any chance you could tell us what prompted this suggestion, btw pete? maybe we could have a vote and do it democratically. not sure how this would work though.

 

[pete]

Jaysus lads.......

Right so, I'll start at the bottom - what prompted this was an email I got containing details of the upcoming Aiken Promotions Babes In Toyland gig for inclusion on the listings page.

Now, before I go any further I'd just like to clarify one thing - I do not for a second think that the big players out there give a monkeys about what is or isn't covered on this site. I have no illusions about the importance of this site in the big scheme of things. Just like Dudley said - they're not going to lose any sleep about their shows not getting coverage here, and they're not going to give a fuck if they are included either. I mean it's not like they're offering inducements or freebies, like guest list places or backstage passes or merchandise, he hinted. Subtly.....

Having said that in all seriousness, I'll also have to admit that sometimes I wonder about this whole policy of not covering non-independent stuff here. Sometimes I wonder why I bother - some days it feels too cliquey, like we're all trying so so hard to be different and excluding a potential audience for the "genuine" stuff in the process - cutting off your nose to spite your face etc.

But most of all sometimes it just makes me feel like a complete fucking hypocrite. Just like undo, I (and I'm sure quite a large proportion of people reading this) go to these "big" shows.... For starters, I just spent £85 on two Bon Jovi tickets as a Christmas present for the missus (no, i'm not going with her. Especially not if BellX1 are playing.). I bought an NSync CD in Tower for another Christmas present (quote from bloke behind the counter - 'I'm guessing this isn't for you, then?').

So whose scene am I supporting when I do things like that?

ANYWAY.........

The whole "where do you draw the line" issue is another problem for me - because I sure as hell don't know. Any time I've had to make a choice before it's been pretty much done on a whim to be honest. I guess I'm just trying to find out what you all think so it'll be easier to decide the next time.

The subjectivity thing is another matter altogether. Who gets to decide what's of interest on this site? I do, of course! Is that objective? Hell no. Is it fair? Probably not. Do I care? No. Hah. Rent-payers prerogative, y'know....

The advertising issue - this has always been a big thing for me. Like the man says, these guys don't need me to spend my money on their advertising budgets. (see "no freebies" reference above heheh)


The potential increase in traffic to the site should not be dismissed out of hand. Every mention of a "name" band on the site pushes it's search engine ranking a little higher when people go looking for that sort of thing - who's to say that if someone looking for information on green day at the point or whatever wouldn't have come across this site and stayed for the other similar, yet more 'acceptable' stuff?


If I were to include the non-independent stuff (and I don't think I will), I'd probably implement some sort of weighting system - ie mention the fact that these things are happening, while giving much more coverage / info on the smaller stuff.

As it happens, I think I might just leave well enough alone. If anyone from Aiken or MCD or The Point or the RDS or whatever wants to publicise their shows then they're more than welcome to post about it on the message board, where people can read it, ignore it or rip it to shreds at their leisure heheheh


Ah shit. I just realised I forgot to watch The Mark Thomas Project on Channel 4.

 

[damien]

i honestly thought that this question would have resulted with an overwhelming "no" from almost everyone who reads thumped (apart from the obligatory shit stirrers, of course).

dudley: using your logic then someone like the kids could justify putting on a major label band so the kids that came to see them could get to see some independent support acts.

and thumped *is* well known to a lot of people who are into bigger stuff that the event guide, et al give coverage to. but listing only underground gigs doesn't make the site seem clique-y; in-jokes and bullshit threads on the message board do.

if thumped began listing these bigger gigs, i firmly believe that it would become assimilated into the world that these big promoters and major label bands live in, not the opposite. look at examples of radical bands who have signed to majors in order to 'take down the system from the inside'.
Chumbawumba: 'Tubthumping' was a song about the evils of the alcohol industry and the hypocracy of ruling classes towards drugs; yet the fucking thing became the most famed drinking anthem of the 90s.
Rage Against The Machine: 10,000 kids scream 'fuck you i won't do what you tell me'. 10,000 kids form bands with aspirations to sign to major labels, because that's what their role models have done.

believe it or not, there are some people out there who believe that independent gigs have absolutly *nothing* in common with what happens when MCD employ stage managers, bouncers, ticket handling fees and some group of goons on a stage in order to make some money.

 

[Osimono]

Im with Damien - why bother? What thumped is is a very unique and totally independent music site, not only by virtue of its organisation but also by virtue of the philosophy of focussing on independent music. Of course people should discuss whatever bands/music on the message board, I presume thats what its for, but for gods sake dont advertise major gigs when you're not being paid for it. Of course its normal for something for Cluas to do that, because the principle behind a site like that is not rooted in a genuine concern for underground music, simply a general music consumerism, but thumped is a very different site which is not really about the same thing (i think).
As for its potential cliqueishness, so what? Get any number of people in the same room with the same interests and you've immediately got a clique complete with in-jokes, self righteousness and paranoia...its pretty normal. And there doesnt seem to be anything stopping anyone joining in, does there? Anyway, the site is far more informative than it is cliqueish...check out what all the posts are about on the message board at the moment ( i dont see any "useless" threads at the moment..
Also, the manner in which MCD treats local artists can only be described as contemptible...surely a website principally dedicated to such artists would treat said organisation in the same fashion?

 

[Vinnie]

An example. John Cale is playing Dublin soon. John Cale is one of the most ferociously punk rock artists of the last 30 years. He is signed to Island or some such. Would I like to see John Cale's gig mentioned on Thumped? Of course. The promoter, the venue, everything, are simply red herrings. When you strip it down the artist lives or dies by their musical output. This gig could alter musical horizons in a way that most of the bands coming over here via independent (or corporate) promoters never could (in my humble opinion). Ultimately, don't lose sight of the music, because that's what we're talking about.

 

[egg_]

Vinnie (09-01-2001 09:32 a.m.):
The promoter, the venue, everything, are simply red herrings. When you strip it down the artist lives or dies by their musical output.

You sure? Is that not like saying you may as well buy commercially-produced as Fair Trade Coffee, cos the thing that really matters is the taste?
Course mindfucking music is harder to come by than good coffee
Anyway, my tuppence worth is I'd love to see more traffic on this site, more people at independent gigs and buying independent records ... I don't know if posting MCD gigs here will make any difference, but wouldn't it be nice if independent music didn't have to be underground

 

[jim mac lunch]

i have a slightly different take on all this because i live in cork and down here info is hard to come by.....
therefore i would like to see relevant bands listings put up on thumped....
case in point was at the drive in + kabinboy as support act....
despite no mention of it in the listings i presumed kabinboy were playing (as it said in the poster) and a couple of my friends did express interest in going to the gig specifically to see the kabinboy...
if i had not posted a message here and got a confirmation i don't think my mates would have been too impressed with having to shell out 60+ quid (train + accom + ticket) to see a band that they had not come to see.....
and thumped posting mcd etc.. listings is not going to change anything in the long run be it traffic or content as this bbs has a decent admin who wouldn't let that happen.....would you pete?????
or are you as corruptable as the rest of us?????

 

[Keeror]

Vinnie (09-01-2001 09:32 a.m.):
John Cale is one of the most ferociously punk rock artists of the last 30 years.

By that do you mean he's been a greedy, coke-snorting megalomaniac?

 

[Vinnie]

Yes Keeror. That is what I mean. Thank you for clearing that up.