Official Thumped position on Lisbon (1 Viewer)

How will you vote in Lisbon II: Is That Your Final Answer?

  • Yes

    Votes: 40 58.8%
  • No

    Votes: 20 29.4%
  • Abstain

    Votes: 7 10.3%
  • Spoil

    Votes: 1 1.5%

  • Total voters
    68
  • Poll closed .
interesting letter in the Times from a group of Trade Unionists having a bit of a go at Joe Higgins...

The letter writer is from the Charter Group - http://www.thechartergroup.ie

Madam, – In the email exchange with Pat Cox (Opinion, August 29th) Joe Higgins MEP quoted selectively from Article 52 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights and proposed that the charter, and the treaty, is “institutionalising the rights of business to exploit workers in the name of the social market”. In a statement on June 18th he claimed that the EU treaties and the charter give priority to the rights of business to make a profit. Both claims are factually incorrect.


The quote that Mr Higgins uses from Article 52 which covers the scope of guaranteed rights, and states that “Rights recognised by the Charter which are based on Community Treaties, shall be exercised under the conditions and within the limits defined by those Treaties” is the second of three paragraphs in this Article. This paragraph simply states that Charter Articles that derive from the Treaty have the same purpose as they have in the Treaty. It would be rather odd if they meant something different to the Treaty.


The first paragraph of Article 52 states that any limitation on charter rights must be provided by law and respect the essence of those rights, while the final paragraph states that rights that derive from the European Convention on Human Rights have the same meaning as laid down by the convention.


Some charter Articles have the treaty as their sole source. Article 36 on protection for public services derives solely from Treaty Article 16, and the paragraph of Article 52 that Mr Higgins quotes simply states that they have the same purpose. The main sources of the charter Articles that relate to workers’ rights are the European Social Charter and the Community Charter of the Fundamental Social Rights for Workers. In a number of charter Articles such as Article 23 on equality between men and women, the treaty is an additional source – in this case Article 141 on the right to equal pay. There is not a shred of evidence to present any of this as a negative in terms of workers’ rights. In fact it was the European Court of Justice in a 1976 ground- breaking judgment that gave real force to the fight for equal pay for women.


The statements by Mr Higgins that the Ruffert European Court judgment allowed for payment of only 50 per cent of the agreed pay rate, and that the Luxembourg judgment ruled that it was illegal for that country to insist on social protections for posted workers are not correct. The main issue in both judgments was that the European Court of Justice ruled that both Luxembourg and Germany had failed to properly transpose the Posting of Workers Directive into their domestic law.


However, there are some concerns for trade unions arising out of the approach taken by the European Court of Justice in some of these judgments. The Declaration on Workers’ Rights secured by the Irish Government last June will assist the ongoing process to address these concerns.


The current treaty provides in Article 43 a right of establishment (business), and in Article 49 a right to provide services in any member-state, and this has given rise to a concern that these “economic freedoms” may take precedence over workers’ rights.


The Lisbon Treaty in Article 6 would give the charter the same legal value as the current treaty Articles thus giving workers’ rights a new and enhanced status. This represents a rebalancing of rights in favour of workers which future European Court of Justice judgments will then have to take account of.


All of the treaty revisions since we joined in 1973 have added new Articles that protect and promote workers’ rights, and the Lisbon Treaty with the Charter of Fundamental Rights is a further significant advance.
All of the evidence shows that the advancement of workers’ rights in this country is almost singlehandedly due to our membership of the European Union. This evidence can be viewed on our website at www.thechartergroup.ie. – Yours, etc,


BLAIR HORAN,
Secretary,
The Charter Group,
Marley Avenue,
Rathfarnham, Dublin 16.
 
This may have been posted already:
COIR3.jpg
 

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Fifi,that poster would be amusing if it was made by the friends of an 21 election candidate with a miller box on his head.
But it is thoroughly misleading.Even though its a joke,it's still advertising one of the worst right wing crypto fascist catholic organistions in the country.
I heard on Pat Kenny that COIR is in fact a pseudoname of Youth Defence,fucking religous zealots and misogynists.
The only reason those cunts are pushing the no vote is because they think abortion is gonna be practically mandatory if we vote yes.And they love priests.

I'm not into the yes campaign either btw.
 
Fifi,that poster would be amusing if it was made by the friends of an 21 election candidate with a miller box on his head.
But it is thoroughly misleading.Even though its a joke,it's still advertising one of the worst right wing crypto fascist catholic organistions in the country.
I heard on Pat Kenny that COIR is in fact a pseudoname of Youth Defence,fucking religous zealots and misogynists.
The only reason those cunts are pushing the no vote is because they think abortion is gonna be practically mandatory if we vote yes.And they love priests.

I'm not into the yes campaign either btw.

Do you think they'll be canvasing?

If one of those fuckers comes to the door.........

They've another poster saying that farmers will be destroyed if we vote yes. The IFA is telling their members to vote yes. I read a letter in the indo that said they were telling people that the EU will bring the minimum wage down to 1.88 and an article that says their biggest gribe is having no mention of god in the whole thing. Worst comment I have heard heard on the treaty as a whole...... "theres no choice for the catholics in it".

Is it to soon to say come back Mr.Ganley all is forgiven?
 
Oh yeah, I think it's actually meant to highlight the idiocy of the Coir posters. The thing is though, their posters are going to tap into the same fears/ignorance that led a lot of people to vote No the last time (Obviously not all people voted No because of fear/ignorance) Listening to people on buses in cafés etc. it's scary to hear people's beliefs about Lisbon, on both sides of the debate!

The Yes side has a harder job of convincing people and I really don't think they're going to do a better job of it this time, than last time out.

The No crowd just have to tap into people's fears and ignorance and the whole "if you don't understand it vote No" line, is already being bandied about.
 
It may well be highlighting their idiocy but it totally distracts from the message that they are trying to obscure and thus feeding into their campaign of misinformation.

If one of them fuckers approached me I'd loaf them in the nose and run off.
 
I think I might be changing my vote to a yes, Broken Arm and these Charter Group guys have made more sense than anyone else so far and I like what I'm hearing.
 
I heard on Pat Kenny that COIR is in fact a pseudoname of Youth Defence,fucking religous zealots and misogynists.

They operate out of the same building but say that they are not alligned to each other, hmmmmm.

Are there any nazi photos of that cunt Justin Barrett around?
Could do with a laugh meself.
 

apart from the first two things, the others seem alright; forced vaccinations - whats wrong with that?, prison industrial complex - great! sounds cool and don't prisoners work anyway?, elite controlled depopulation - i think we all agree this is needed. new world order sounds alright by me.
 
http://www.irishleftreview.org/2009/09/03/joe-higgins-mep-lisbon-workers-rights/

The Charter Group, made up of some trade union leaders, claim that if the Lisbon Treaty is passed it will significantly add to workers’ rights because Lisbon ratification would give workers’ rights “equivalence” with ‘market rules’. The implication is that judgements of the European Court of Justice, which supported contractors’ rights to refuse to observe protection afforded to migrant workers by trade union negotiated agreements, and by rules imposed by regional and national public authorities, could not be repeated if Lisbon is ratified. This is demonstrably false and these trade union leaders do a grave disservice to their own membership and workers generally.
y'see, what are you meant to think??

was the treaty set up specifically to augment workers rights? no, i didn't think so anyway. anyone who says it was or that it doesn't it but should is missing the same point....the treaty is there to allow for more efficiencies in the way the EU operates.........efficiencies for who?? i don't believe the treaty was formulated w the needs of the citizens foremost in the minds of the formulaters...really...politicians LOVE inefficiencies...they nurture them....they use and slate them in the same breath. i heard some shit about arms industry benefitting from the treaty but can't get a clear opinion on it.

both sides agree the treaty is more or less the same yoke as the EU constitution thing that got a bit pissed upon...byyyyyyyy PEOPLE...the main diff being no-one really has to vote on lisbon...i swear i smell a rat...a rat bearing gifts, sure...but a rat.


VOTE YES...FOR JOBS!!! (So if unemployment was not an issue it'd be fine to vote 'no'? and a 'yes' definitely 'implements' jobs as a matter of course?

VOTE YES....FOR THE ECONOMY!!! (If we weren't in the vomit-pit then voting 'no' would simply be a matter of taste?)
 
THE REFERENDUM Commission will correct claims about the Lisbon Treaty that are false, but will not enter into “a war of words” with any of the parties in the debate, according to its chairman, Mr Justice Clarke.Speaking at the launch of its campaign yesterday, he said the suggestion that the minimum wage would be reduced as a result of the treaty, for example, needed correction.


“The Lisbon Treaty says nothing about whether a country has a minimum wage or what that is,” he said. “The minimum wage is not a competence given to the EU.” Referring to other issues in the debate, he said: “It is not for us to say whether the economy will be better off or not. We are not in the business of commenting on any claim. But we do identify the issues that are in the Lisbon Treaty and those that are not.”


For example, claims had been made about the impact of a rejection on Ireland’s economic future, and that the treaty would open the door to an erosion of workers’ rights. Nothing in the treaty explicitly addressed either of these issues, which were matters for the people to assess.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0904/1224253821415.html
 
The PDF file presents a 175-paged document entitled "What ambitions for Europeans defence in 2020?". It was produced by the EU Institute for Security Studies, an EU funded policy think-tank. The paper deals with security strategy for the EU in 2020, and concentrates on the problems of "hierarchical class society", with the "elite" of the world on one side, and the so-called "bottom billion" on the other. To avoid "global systemic collapse" the paper suggests that the "full spectrum of high intensity combat" to be used to protect what is called "globalisers" from "localisers". Localisers, making up 80% of the world population, include the "bottom billion", states in the Middle East and the so-called "Alienated Modern States" like North Korea. Globalisers, notably, include not only members of the OECD and "Rapid Transition Societies" like China and Brasil, but also "Transnational Corporations"—the "Fortune Global 1000".



In that context the paper elaborates on "barrier operations shielding the global rich from the tensions and problems of the poor". It reads that "as the ratio of the world population living in misery and frustration will remain massive, the tensions and spillover between their world and that of the rich will continue to grow. As we are unlikely to have solved this problem at its root by 2020 - i.e. by curing dysfunctional societies we will need to strengthen our barriers. It is a morally distasteful, losing strategy, but will be unavoidable if we cannot solve the problems at their root."

http://wikileaks.org/wiki/EUISS:_What_ambitions_for_European_defence_in_2020,_Jul_2009
 
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