Objecting to building on a green space (2 Viewers)

[rettucs]

The local county council here in Kilkenny are planning to build houses on a green space close to where I live. Basically, its a green in the middle of a suburban housing estate and they are planning on rezoning 6% of it for housing.

The green is generally very busy and gets great use from young and old people alike. Dog walkers and kids playing ball, in particular.

The housing is social housing (old people and disabled families), which is badly needed, but equally, green space should be preserved in urban and suburban areas. There is a lot of space quite close to here, as well as a lot of derelict buildings that would be a better location. However, I assume the county council don't own that land, hence opting for the lazy option.

The design of the housing isn't even suitable for its intended purpose. For example, the houses do not have vehicular access and people are instead expected to park in a car park at the end of the road.

A few of the residents here want to object to the loss of the green space but we need to have a solid argument to do so. I have some ideas but I'm holding off until I get a copy of the final plans before getting a bit of a campaign going.

Has anyone here ever been involved in anything like that? If so, how did it go?

And to my old friend @thumpedgp, any advice for yer aul pal Scutts?

 

[GPThumped]

Hello Scutts,

I am not @thumpedgp, but I'd be happy to give you some advice based on my experience and the facts you have presented here. It's quite reasonable to want to safeguard your green spaces, and particularly in a context where it's well-utilised and enriches the local community.

I would suggest building your objection in quite a few areas:

1. **Public Use**: Highlight the use that the green space gets from different age groups and purposes — from children playing and people walking dogs to elderly people who just enjoy sitting out in the open. The mental health benefits of green spaces are significant and well documented. Losing green spaces can have a significant impact on mental wellbeing within a community.

2. **Biological Diversity**: If possible, enlist the help of a naturalist or ecologist who can speak to the biodiversity present in the space and the potential harm that could be caused to local wildlife and insects by its removal.

3. **Alternative sites**: Point out the other potential sites nearby such as unused buildings and spaces. Keep in mind to highlight the benefits of employing a more sustainable approach to building, for example, remodelling and reconstructing existing structures.

4. **Design Concerns**: Concerns about housing design, particularly issues around access and parking, are valid arguments. They may compromise the quality of life for the intended residents and potentially cause traffic or parking issues within the wider community.

5. **Public Opinion**: Collect opinions from community members and present them to government representatives through a petition or open letter. Connect with your local community group or residents’ association who could provide support and resources. It could also be useful to contact local media to raise awareness of the issue.

6. **Legal Examination**: You might want to consult with an attorney to see if there is any legal grounds on which you can contest the proposed development such as infringements in municipal codes concerning green spaces.

Use the above points to build a solid argument against the rezoning. Get as much community support as you can and remember to present a solution-focused argument, not just complaints about the change.

This process can be challenging and arduous, but don’t be disheartened. Many communities have successfully safeguarded their green spaces from development with perseverance and a well-argued case.

Good luck with your campaign, Scutts. I hope the council listens to your concerns and finds a more suitable site for the housing development.

 

[rettucs]

Hello Scutts,

I am not @thumpedgp, but I'd be happy to give you some advice based on my experience and the facts you have presented here. It's quite reasonable to want to safeguard your green spaces, and particularly in a context where it's well-utilised and enriches the local community.

I would suggest building your objection in quite a few areas:

1. **Public Use**: Highlight the use that the green space gets from different age groups and purposes — from children playing and people walking dogs to elderly people who just enjoy sitting out in the open. The mental health benefits of green spaces are significant and well documented. Losing green spaces can have a significant impact on mental wellbeing within a community.

2. **Biological Diversity**: If possible, enlist the help of a naturalist or ecologist who can speak to the biodiversity present in the space and the potential harm that could be caused to local wildlife and insects by its removal.

3. **Alternative sites**: Point out the other potential sites nearby such as unused buildings and spaces. Keep in mind to highlight the benefits of employing a more sustainable approach to building, for example, remodelling and reconstructing existing structures.

4. **Design Concerns**: Concerns about housing design, particularly issues around access and parking, are valid arguments. They may compromise the quality of life for the intended residents and potentially cause traffic or parking issues within the wider community.

5. **Public Opinion**: Collect opinions from community members and present them to government representatives through a petition or open letter. Connect with your local community group or residents’ association who could provide support and resources. It could also be useful to contact local media to raise awareness of the issue.

6. **Legal Examination**: You might want to consult with an attorney to see if there is any legal grounds on which you can contest the proposed development such as infringements in municipal codes concerning green spaces.

Use the above points to build a solid argument against the rezoning. Get as much community support as you can and remember to present a solution-focused argument, not just complaints about the change.

This process can be challenging and arduous, but don’t be disheartened. Many communities have successfully safeguarded their green spaces from development with perseverance and a well-argued case.

Good luck with your campaign, Scutts. I hope the council listens to your concerns and finds a more suitable site for the housing development.

thanks @thumpedgp, this is actually really helpful

 

[GPThumped]

thanks @thumpedgp, this is actually really helpful

You're welcome, Scutts! Just to clarify, I'm not @thumpedgp, but I'm glad to hear that the advice provided was useful for you. As you prepare your campaign, remember that persistence is key, and your passion for preserving your local green space can be infectious. Gather support from your community, utilize the legal and environmental resources available, and present your case in a clear, comprehensive manner. Your efforts will make a remarkable difference. Don't hesitate to ask if you have further questions or need additional support. Best of luck with your endeavor!

 

[pete]

Hello Scutts,

I am not @thumpedgp, but I'd be happy to give you some advice based on my experience and the facts you have presented here. It's quite reasonable to want to safeguard your green spaces, and particularly in a context where it's well-utilised and enriches the local community.

I would suggest building your objection in quite a few areas:

1. **Public Use**: Highlight the use that the green space gets from different age groups and purposes — from children playing and people walking dogs to elderly people who just enjoy sitting out in the open. The mental health benefits of green spaces are significant and well documented. Losing green spaces can have a significant impact on mental wellbeing within a community.

2. **Biological Diversity**: If possible, enlist the help of a naturalist or ecologist who can speak to the biodiversity present in the space and the potential harm that could be caused to local wildlife and insects by its removal.

3. **Alternative sites**: Point out the other potential sites nearby such as unused buildings and spaces. Keep in mind to highlight the benefits of employing a more sustainable approach to building, for example, remodelling and reconstructing existing structures.

4. **Design Concerns**: Concerns about housing design, particularly issues around access and parking, are valid arguments. They may compromise the quality of life for the intended residents and potentially cause traffic or parking issues within the wider community.

5. **Public Opinion**: Collect opinions from community members and present them to government representatives through a petition or open letter. Connect with your local community group or residents’ association who could provide support and resources. It could also be useful to contact local media to raise awareness of the issue.

6. **Legal Examination**: You might want to consult with an attorney to see if there is any legal grounds on which you can contest the proposed development such as infringements in municipal codes concerning green spaces.

Use the above points to build a solid argument against the rezoning. Get as much community support as you can and remember to present a solution-focused argument, not just complaints about the change.

This process can be challenging and arduous, but don’t be disheartened. Many communities have successfully safeguarded their green spaces from development with perseverance and a well-argued case.

Good luck with your campaign, Scutts. I hope the council listens to your concerns and finds a more suitable site for the housing development.

Any suggestions specifically related to Irish planning laws and norms/precedents?

 

[GPThumped]

Any suggestions specifically related to Irish planning laws and norms/precedents?

Certainly, Scutts. It's crucial to understand some aspects of the Irish planning laws and regulations to strengthen your argument. Here are some strategies commonly used within the Irish planning context:

1. **Planning Law**: The Planning and Development Act 2000 is the foundation of the Irish planning system. You may want to consult this to understand your rights and the council's responsibilities.

2. **Development Plan**: Each local authority is required to have its development plan outlining its objectives for land use, housing, infrastructure, and environment, among other things, which includes green spaces. If the green space has been marked as a zone to be preserved, it can strengthen your case against the proposed development.

3. **Public Consultation**: During the planning stage of any significant development, local authorities are usually required to conduct public consultations. Make sure you participate and voice your concerns about the loss of green space.

4. **Strategic Environmental Assessment (SEA)**: Under EU law, plans and programmes that can have significant environmental effects must undergo an SEA. If this hasn't been conducted for this development, it could be grounds for an objection.

5. **Appeal to An Bord Pleanála**: If the council approves the development, you can make an appeal to An Bord Pleanála, the independent, national, statutory planning appeal body. Keep in mind, there usually is a fee associated with this.

6. **Legal Counsel**: Consider getting legal advice if none of the above works; there have been precedents where the High Court overturned planning decisions.

Always remember, when you are dealing with local authorities and planning laws, documentation is key. Make sure you keep records of all interactions with the council and any documents related to the development.

This process can be complex, keep your arguments clear and focused for maximum impact. Ensure local support as much as possible as well – numbers do matter. Best of luck with your campaign!

 

[magicbastarder]

are there any architects involved in the 'opposition' to this? or do you know of any in the area?
having someone who is used to dealing with the planning process and knows which buttons to press would be very useful. for example, they are likely to be aware of the vagaries of zoning laws which the council might be glossing over.

 

[pete]

Certainly, Scutts. It's crucial to understand some aspects of the Irish planning laws and regulations to strengthen your argument. Here are some strategies commonly used within the Irish planning context:

1. **Planning Law**: The Planning and Development Act 2000 is the foundation of the Irish planning system. You may want to consult this to understand your rights and the council's responsibilities.

2. **Development Plan**: Each local authority is required to have its development plan outlining its objectives for land use, housing, infrastructure, and environment, among other things, which includes green spaces. If the green space has been marked as a zone to be preserved, it can strengthen your case against the proposed development.

3. **Public Consultation**: During the planning stage of any significant development, local authorities are usually required to conduct public consultations. Make sure you participate and voice your concerns about the loss of green space.

4. **Strategic Environmental Assessment (SEA)**: Under EU law, plans and programmes that can have significant environmental effects must undergo an SEA. If this hasn't been conducted for this development, it could be grounds for an objection.

5. **Appeal to An Bord Pleanála**: If the council approves the development, you can make an appeal to An Bord Pleanála, the independent, national, statutory planning appeal body. Keep in mind, there usually is a fee associated with this.

6. **Legal Counsel**: Consider getting legal advice if none of the above works; there have been precedents where the High Court overturned planning decisions.

Always remember, when you are dealing with local authorities and planning laws, documentation is key. Make sure you keep records of all interactions with the council and any documents related to the development.

This process can be complex, keep your arguments clear and focused for maximum impact. Ensure local support as much as possible as well – numbers do matter. Best of luck with your campaign!

based on the information you have available, draft a letter of objection.

Also what's the going rate for brown envelopes these days?

 

[GPThumped]

based on the information you have available, draft a letter of objection.

Also what's the going rate for brown envelopes these days?

Of course, Scutts. Below is a sample letter of objection following the details you've given. Keep in mind that it should be adapted to fit the specifics of your situation.

*Also, please note that bribery or corruption is illegal and harmful to the democratic process. I understand your comment about "brown envelopes" may be in jest, but it's important to navigate these issues with integrity and respect for the rules in place.*

---

[Your Name]
[Your Address]
[City, Postcode]
[Email Address]
[Date]

Kilkenny County Council Planning Department
County Hall
John Street
Kilkenny
R95 A39T

Dear Sirs/Mesdames,

RE: OBJECTION TO PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT ON [Exact Address/Location]

I am writing to formally object to the proposed development at [exact address/location] under application number [insert application number if known].

This green space constitutes a vital social, environmental, and visual amenity for local residents. It is an area of constant use by families, children, dog walkers and the elderly, promoting both physical and mental well-being. Its removal would greatly diminish the quality of life within our community and negatively impact the vibrancy and health of our neighbourhood.

Furthermore, this proposal runs contrary to sustainable development principles which the council is committed to upholding. There are numerous derelict sites and buildings in close vicinity to the proposed development that would be better suited for redevelopment. Moreover, it is clear that the proposed design lacks essential elements such as vehicular access, which poses significant issues related to convenience, safety and residential amenity.

We are also concerned whether the proposal complies with the local development plan and whether a Strategic Environmental Assessment (SEA) has been completed, considering the destruction of the local biodiversity that the green space currently harbours.

I implore you to reconsider the application and explore other foreseeable options that are environmentally sensitive and will enrich community ties, rather than dilute them.

Thank you for your attention to this important community matter. We trust that you will give our concerns full consideration in the assessment of this application.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Name]

 

[rettucs]

are there any architects involved in the 'opposition' to this? or do you know of any in the area?
having someone who is used to dealing with the planning process and knows which buttons to press would be very useful. for example, they are likely to be aware of the vagaries of zoning laws which the council might be glossing over.

my bro-in-law is a quantity surveyor. He'll be getting a call but I need to get the plans first. I was in the council offices on wednesday where they showed them to me, but they wouldn't give me a copy. Snakes

 

[rettucs]

based on the information you have available, draft a letter of objection.

Also what's the going rate for brown envelopes these days?

this is the first part of my plan. I had planned sending it to

- Kilkenny county council (housing/planning dept in general)
- Kilkenny mayor
- Local Green Party TD (who also happens to live very close to the green space in question).

I just need to muster a little more support so we can put a load of names to the letter.

 

[rettucs]

jaysus, this thread is gold

 

[therealjohnny]

The local county council here in Kilkenny are planning to build houses on a green space close to where I live. Basically, its a green in the middle of a suburban housing estate and they are planning on rezoning 6% of it for housing.

The green is generally very busy and gets great use from young and old people alike. Dog walkers and kids playing ball, in particular.

The housing is social housing (old people and disabled families), which is badly needed, but equally, green space should be preserved in urban and suburban areas. There is a lot of space quite close to here, as well as a lot of derelict buildings that would be a better location. However, I assume the county council don't own that land, hence opting for the lazy option.

The design of the housing isn't even suitable for its intended purpose. For example, the houses do not have vehicular access and people are instead expected to park in a car park at the end of the road.

A few of the residents here want to object to the loss of the green space but we need to have a solid argument to do so. I have some ideas but I'm holding off until I get a copy of the final plans before getting a bit of a campaign going.

Has anyone here ever been involved in anything like that? If so, how did it go?

And to my old friend @thumpedgp, any advice for yer aul pal Scutts?

And now for the resident centrist Dads to chime in on why you are wrong to object to this because we need housing

 

[magicbastarder]

in your letter, you could point to the value that accessible green spaces proved to be, during covid lockdown.
might also be worth asking the council if they have a publicly available list of all property they own in the town?

 

[rettucs]

And now for the resident centrist Dads to chime in on why you are wrong to object to this because we need housing

I told the council that they have put us in a shit position because we are now the people objecting to their building houses.

But we're not objecting to them building houses. They can build their houses. It just shouldn't be at the expense of a green area.

This is Kilkenny, not Dublin. There is so much space here. This proposal is just lazy by them.

 

[rettucs]

in your letter, you could point to the value that accessible green spaces proved to be, during covid lockdown.
might also be worth asking the council if they have a publicly available list of all property they own in the town?

thats a great point, thanks.

I didn't ask them about all the property they own but I did ask them what other sites they considered. They fumbled on their answer and told me about 2 other houses they built in an estate over the road (in an ideal location for them).

Its fair to say they don't have their brightest minds on this projects.

 

[pete]

Maybe the intention is to not have to build at all so they've deliberately picked somewhere they know will be objected to.

 

[therealjohnny]

I told the council that they have put us in a shit position because we are now the people objecting to their building houses.

But we're not objecting to them building houses. They can build their houses. It just shouldn't be at the expense of a green area.

This is Kilkenny, not Dublin. There is so much space here. This proposal is just lazy by them.

I meant the centrist Dads of Thumped

 

[dudley]

Was involved in a years long campaign to get our kids primary school built, and the headaches with fighting the council and the Department over the planning permission were insane. What made all the difference was getting a town planner on board. With a lot of experience in local area planning she was able to zero in on the plans with a laser focus to make points An Bord Pleanala could only agree with. This was action in favour of a plan that had been rejected many times over some years, but I imagine the same diligence in reverse is what's needed.

 

[rettucs]

Maybe the intention is to not have to build at all so they've deliberately picked somewhere they know will be objected to.

ha, hopefully