NAMA - WTF?? (2 Viewers)

[ann post]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[Pedronimus]

This is hardly going to apply to individuals; NAMA isn't going to be picking up individual mortgages.

It will if the mortgage on your house is €5million or more.

 

[mark]

thats me fucked so.

 

[pete]

State expects Nama to pay taxpayer €5.5bn profit by 2020

NAMA team still haven’t seen €77bn loan files

Cost of advisers estimated at €2.6bn


oh god

(all via http://twitter.com/marklittlenews)
​

 

[Cryptid]

State expects Nama to pay taxpayer €5.5bn profit by 2020

€5.5 bn on an investment of €54 bn over ten years - about 1% a year. You'd get more putting it in a deposit account. Amazing.

NAMA team still haven’t seen €77bn loan files

So what are the figures based on? They say they've been examining something.. Letters and reports they've received from the banks..?

Cost of advisers estimated at €2.6bn​

oh god​

(all via http://twitter.com/marklittlenews)​

That, inself is a good argument for nationalising the banks. The amount of waste and duplication of effort this will cause. And that's before mistakes are made.

I'd imagine that, given the liquidation of Carroll group, these figures should be further revised downwards. They were too high in the first place according to some.

A lot of it boils down to 'do you have blind faith in these people?'

 

[pete]

and let's not forget

http://www.independent.ie/national-...loss-as-value-of-site-drops-85pc-1914139.html

 

[Froog]

question: are the government assuming all debts will eventually be paid back? what if some simply can't be paid back? i'd say lots of these companies would declare bankruptcy no?

 

[Unicron]

question: are the government assuming all debts will eventually be paid back?

No, but they're saying that those debts that will be paid back will cover the losses of the other ones.

 

[pete]

http://trueeconomics.blogspot.com/2009/10/economics-15102009-nama-business-plan.html

aarrgh

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

these guys from yesterdays and tuesdays indo letters page have the right idea

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/its-immoral-to-pay-taxes-for-this-farce-1912461.html

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/i-now-refuse-to-pay-my-taxes-1909974.html

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/whole-system-is-simply-a-farce-1911531.html

 

[pete]

NAMA Is Rescue Plan For The Elite

 

[Cryptid]

NAMA Is Rescue Plan For The Elite

That 2,600 Million in fees is mind boggling. Especially when the people doing the advising have a vested interest in overstating the value of the market - the bigger the transaction, the bigger the fee. And we pay for both the transaction and the fee.

If the banks were given the equity they need to operate, i.e. nationalised, there wouldn't be any of this nonsense. There'd be short term pain, but a much better outlook going forward. As opposed to the long term pain of NAMA.

But the EU doesn't want it's currency to be affected by Irish banks being nationalised. Fiscal policy is a matter for the individual states, whereas monetary policy is a matter for the EU. So the EU is pressurising the state into this fiscal solution which is good (short term) for the EU, bad long-term for us.

 

[Pedronimus]

So the EU is pressurising the state into this fiscal solution which is good (short term) for the EU, bad long-term for us.

What has the EU ever done for us?

 

[Cryptid]

Lenihan is powerless to prevent AIB paying 3pc raise to staff (from independent.ie)

Crazy.

Lenihan is powerless to prevent AIB paying 3pc raise to staff

By Pat Boyle
Monday October 19 2009
THE Department of Finance, which has extended billions in state aid to AIB, is powerless to prevent the bank from awarding its staff a 3pc pay rise.

It means Finance Minister Brian Lenihan, already furious at the bank's insistence on appointing an internal candidate to replace outgoing chief executive Eugene Sheehy, is once again left frustrated at the bank's actions.

AIB is now set to follow the example of Bank of Ireland and award its staff a 3pc pay rise, while other sections of industry and the public service suffer either freezes or pay cuts.

Bank of Ireland, along with the state-owned ESB, was last year one of the few major companies to award its staff the final 3pc due under the last national wage agreement.

After its refusal last year to pay the final instalment of the national wage agreement, AIB entered negotiations with its unions over a number of issues relating to pay, pensions and redundancy terms.

This culminated in staff refusing management's proposal of a 5pc across-the-board pay cut and ultimately, a referral to the Labour Relations Commission, which subsequently ruled that the bank should pay staff the 3pc increase.

This row follows on AIB's insistence that because of the €500,000 pay cap imposed by Mr Lenihan on the new bank chief's salary, it has been unable to attract a strong enough external candidate. Instead it wants to promote internal candidate Colm Doherty to the top job.

In a brief statement yesterday, the bank said that "following a recommendation to AIB bank on pay issued by the Labour Relations Commission in May, an average increment of 3pc has now been made to some categories of staff below manager level in the bank's operations in Ireland".

A spokesman for the Department of Finance pointed out that while AIB was in receipt of major public funding and while the finance minister had a "minority" shareholding in the banks, they were still private companies.
He said that while Mr Lenihan could lead by example and plead his case, he could not direct pay policy at private companies.

Invested

The Government has already invested €5bn in the AIB and Bank of Ireland, as well as giving them a two-year guarantee on all of their debts. It will also extend further public funds to the banks through the National Asset Management Agency (NAMA), which is due to pay out €54bn to absorb €77bn in property-related loans from the Irish banks.

But even after the NAMA funds flow into the banks' coffers, Mr Lenihan has stated the banks could be in need of further funding.

While AIB itself estimates it may need an additional €2bn, independent analysts put the figure as high as a further €3.4bn, with some of this likely to come from the State.

- Pat Boyle

Irish Independent

 

[nlgbbbblth]

The LRC approved the 3% increase. Independent assessment. If you start to overrule their decisions then it's a dangerous precedent to set.
It's what they were entitled to in 2008 but the bank refused to pay it.

The staff getting it are "below manager level" which means they're not that well paid and are taking the brunt of public abuse (and believe me, there's lots of ill-informed people giving counter staff a hard time) for the reckless policies of senior management in the bank.

 

[Cryptid]

The LRC approved the 3% increase. Independent assessment. If you start to overrule their decisions then it's a dangerous precedent to set.
It's what they were entitled to in 2008 but the bank refused to pay it.

The staff getting it are "below manager level" which means they're not that well paid and are taking the brunt of public abuse (and believe me, there's lots of ill-informed people giving counter staff a hard time) for the reckless policies of senior management in the bank.

Very good point - it's an LRC ruling. It just looks very bad - the banks seem unable to cut wages.

Declaration of interest: I'm in the public sector. That said, I think the public sector have to take wage cuts given the general condition of the economy. It's just that with NAMA, those cuts are going to worse and more prolonged. And quite possibly ultimately pointless.

 

[nlgbbbblth]

NAMA is ultimately depressing. If I worked outside the sector I would be totally against it. As it stands, I can see the reasons for it, but I remain unconvinced that it will solve the inherent problems.

These problems being - land was overvalued. Loans were taken out which now can never be repaid. Although in the majority of cases, the initial lending was sound and stacked up - if you assumed the good times would stay around for a lot longer than they did.

Who wins?

 

[pete]

Very good point - it's an LRC ruling. It just looks very bad - the banks seem unable to cut wages.

Declaration of interest: I'm in the public sector. That said, I think the public sector have to take more wage cuts given the general condition of the economy. It's just that with NAMA, those cuts are going to worse and more prolonged. And quite possibly ultimately pointless.

fixed

 

[nlgbbbblth]

forget NAMA, bring on NWA

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[ann post]