NAMA - WTF?? (2 Viewers)

[Cryptid]

What's the stupdiest way the State can intervene big-time in the economy to get things going again?

Buy up the bad debts for twice of what they are now worth. It'll more than double the National Debt. Nobody gets employed, no roads, hospitals, schools etc get built as a result of it. It might slow the collapse in the property market and we can say to other countries that no Irish banks collapsed. FFS!

It's like there's kids deciding on the economic policy in this country.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

I don't really understand it and would prefer getting it explained more than the Lisbon Treaty, the minutiae of which aren't all that important to our lives.

 

[ann post]

http://www.nama.ie/TendersIntro.php

for something they invented last week they at elast go some work done in may.

my mad theory about what its all about is that debt was the power banks had over society, so its a way of govt to control the power the banks have.

 

[Cryptid]

I don't really understand it and would prefer getting it explained more than the Lisbon Treaty, the minutiae of which aren't all that important to our lives.

As I understand it, the State is going to go to the banks and say "Who, of those that owe more than a couple of million, hasn't made a repayment in the last year or so and the collateral that they put up isn't worth a shit?"

The banks then say "We have Mr. Develop-Anthing-That-Moves here who owes us €200 million and can't pay it back. The collateral he put up (i.e. the developments themselves and any other collateral) is now worth about €65 million."

The state says "Grand so, here's €130 million and we'll try to get the few quid off yer man."

The €65 million is the market value and €130 is the "long term value" of the asset. The "long term value" is based on assumptions such as a rise in the World growth rate, that we're at the bottom of the business cycle, among other things. Hot air basically.

IMF in March.

 

[GO]

.

IMF in March.

I think they've got a shop in Ballymun now as well.

 

[magicbastarder]

there are probably five options here - one, the government don't help the banks out. the banks tank, and ireland ends up being a second world country.
second option, the government help the banks out but pay too little for the debts. the banks tank. see option 1.
third option - the government help the banks out, but at a rate which means the rate paid for the debt is about right. best possible scenario.
fourth option, the government pay too much. taxpayer foots the bad debt bill.
fifth - the government nationalise the banks. we get to own the debt anyway.

NAMA is not necessarily a good idea. but there is no sure fire way out of this.

 

[Cryptid]

there are probably five options here - one, the government don't help the banks out. the banks tank, and ireland ends up being a second world country.
second option, the government help the banks out but pay too little for the debts. the banks tank. see option 1.
third option - the government help the banks out, but at a rate which means the rate paid for the debt is about right. best possible scenario.
fourth option, the government pay too much. taxpayer foots the bad debt bill.
fifth - the government nationalise the banks. we get to own the debt anyway.

NAMA is not necessarily a good idea. but there is no sure fire way out of this.

70 banks in the US have hit the wall in the past year (25 in 2007), many of them bigger than BOI or AIB. It hasn't meant hyper inflation or other doomsday scenarios occuring there (although they've a long way to go). Yet not one of ours has been allowed to go under, no matter how crippled. I think that Ireland is very much a second world country - I don't think the State has copped on to that yet. Look at our hospitals. Sorry, but it's a joke.

If we nationalise the banks, we get the deposits too (which the state is the guarantor for anyway). NAMA is, I think, nuts. What the state is trying to do is fight a business cycle which it was happy to be part of when it was on the upside. Now the state is in denial that this is the inevitable inverse.

 

[dleacht]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0804/1224251960430.html

Good article here

 

[platters]

The problems with NAMA as far as I can see are

1. The tax payer will have to pay over the odds in order for the scheme to work.
2. If the scheme does work the government, the banks and their shareholders will not have learnt any lessons from the systemic mistakes of the past decade.
3. If the scheme does not work Ireland will be seen as an stagnant economy by outside investors

The problems with nationalising the banks as far as I can see are

1. Ireland will be seen as an stagnant economy by outside investors
2. The government will still have to figure out a way offload the toxic properties

I suggest a third option of allowing the banks to fall and using the NAMA money to fund a new national bank that can lend to small businesses. This will lead to only one of the above drawbacks

1. Ireland will be seen as an stagnant economy by outside investors

Perhaps I'm over simplifying, but the NAMA option is the worst in my opinion.

 

[broken arm]

look into my eyes... wwooooooo.... loooook into my eyesss.... wooooooo ..... you a feeeling sleeepy.. verrry sleeepy

 

[platters]

See that dude on the second tier up (the bourgeois tier)? That's me that is

Seriously tho, if NAMA does go ahead the Irish electorate should demand 2 provisos

1. FF step down and hold a general election to give any NAMA policies a mandate from the people
2. There should be a revision of banking regulations in this county to ensure that this crap never happens again

 

[broken arm]

See that dude on the second tier up (the bourgeois tier)? That's me that is

the dude with his head flopped on the table from too much fois gras and Cristal - yea that's you all right.

 

[ratmonkey]

Seriously tho, if NAMA does go ahead the Irish electorate should demand 2 provisos

1. FF step down and hold a general election to give any NAMA policies a mandate from the people

Which'd be no bad thing for FF as a whole; let FG / Labour do all the nasty unpopular cutting that'll have to be done and they get back in in the next election.

Also, NAMA just sounds like it was made up to go with the Batman theme NAMA NAMA NAMA NAMA NAMA NAMA NAMA NAMA BATMAN!!

 

[Carlow Punks!]

yes, yes...

but where does Man-Boy Love come into all this?

 

[CitySickness]

Supreme Court hearing Carroll appeal - just how political are the Supreme Court, exactly? I guess we'll find out today...

 

[pete]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0901/1224253586352.html

 

[Cryptid]

Another "good one".

JOHN MULCAHY, the auctioneer advising the National Asset Management Agency on property valuation, made optimistic public comments about the outlook for the Irish property market as recently as two years ago.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0902/1224253665122.html?via=mr

The "long-term economic value" (the value in 10 years time?) could actually be less than the current market value. It's a stupid way to value things. Totally intangible, especially in Ireland where nobody is able to correctly value anything.

 

[pete]

so much for the free market

 

[nooleen]

the dude with his head flopped on the table from too much fois gras and Cristal - yea that's you all right.

that's me lounging on the ground at the bottom feeling sorry for myself but not actually doing anything

 

[egg_]

David McWilliams says let the banks fold and the state takes their assets:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/c...could-be-our-economic-stalingrad-1875206.html