MCD - Let's talk... (4 Viewers)

[Pantone247]

Originally posted by GrRrrrR
Y'know ... he broke the agreement
Common sense.
etc.

in all my child like innocence I thought that too... "but.. but... you promised!"

the whole thing seemed so insanely not right that I found it hard to believe it was actually happening. Then my cynical self turned up and I realised I wasn't the least bit surprised at all.

this happened the same week the THiNGs dublin date got moved in The Village under odd circumstance, and we had to pull out.

I was all full of love for the man that week

Like I said I can see why whleans do it, and I can see why they get away with it too, but it still makes me cry.

It also drives me nuts that we "have" a new date, and I've the posters done, ready to go (they are SO orange! ), but I can't print them... I have the bands lined up and sorted.. but I can't promise them its *actually* on... also if we only get two weeks notice we have sod all chance of getting it into the event guide and the hotpress and all that press malarky

*cry*

 

[pete]

Why do dogs lick their balls?

 

[pete]

Look - IANAL, but if the hotel you booked for your wedding reception did the same thing you'd sue.

When booking a venue, try to do it in person and insist on a receipt or written confirmation of some description. Then, if they try to pull the rug out from under you, say "small claims court".

If more people did this the world would be a better place (the receipt thing, not the suing)

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

I'd say the main reason they can get away with screwing bands around is that old..
" there's always someone else who'll do it if you want" thing..

Can you say 'musician's union' ?

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

Which reminds me, that's exactly the kind of thing Gigsmart are in to, and flawed as it may be, they seem to be doing well enough at it...

Mind you, like I said before, how many bands would stick with them if offered the corporate carrot?

 

[Ex-User (1487)]

bullshit? it's not bullshit. read any business's or comapny's agenda, usually reads "to gain a bigger market share" etc. why does anyone think i'm condoning this in any way? i'm simply stating facts. you think the big guys in mcd are sitting there saying "oh, i think we may have been a bit too mean this week... let's give that gig to AlphaRelish because we have more than enough to be getting on with..."? i doubt it.
there's 2 big promoters in dublin and between them, they either own or have a stranglehold over most of the venues in the city. this is a fact. and they set the tickets prices at whatever amount they like. another fact. only uninformed people would think humanitat is not about making money. my point is that whatever measure are in place to stop this situation happening are obviously not working and that if people are annoyed by their favourite bands playing for these big promoters that they should go to the source of the problem or *boycot* (maybe that sits with you better?) the shows by refusing to pay over a certain amount for any gig (for me, it's around 20 euros). why did you think i was saying that the practices of mcd or aiken or anyone who takes anyones else for a ride are ok?

Originally posted by pete


hag said: mcd is a business, businesses exist to make money and defeat competition.

That's bullshit, and you know it.

Yes, MCD is a business. Yes, they exist to make a profit. But no business has the right to "defeat" competition!

Apart from when it’s calling itself "Humanitat", of course....

 

[Juno]

Originally posted by GrRrrrR
Which reminds me, that's exactly the kind of thing Gigsmart are in to, and flawed as it may be, they seem to be doing well enough at it...

Jesus...me and you have got to have words later.

 

[the snitch]

<edit: snip snip snip!>

i think that pete is right in saying that they are a monopoly, and hapi correct in asserting that this is a consequence of market forces (they are a private organisation motivated by profit). mcd ticket prices are overpriced and venues substandard (ie the ambassador), but they'll NEVER be otherwise while they have an audience. as someone said, we have choices to buy tickets for their gigs or not, to estblish and maintain alternatives (eg Hope) it's up to the consumers, and we are CONSUMERS after all. it's up to you how much profit you want to hand over. with each ticket you buy you are covering stuff like venue overheads, artist fees, and promoters and recprd company cuts the rest is PROFIT. you decide whether you can square EURO 120 for Neil Young or whether you'd feel better going to a fugazi gig or whatever where your ticket just covers basic overheads. dont expect bands, promoters, venues to hold the same philosophy as you, they position themselves relative to the music industry. you have choices though, so if anything, be an independent consumer, excerise some value judgement. i don't think anyone just shells out their hard earned without thinking, do they?

 

[Ex-User (1487)]

and i thought i'd hidden my message too well...

 

[pete]

Originally posted by AlphaRelish
bullshit? it's not bullshit. read any business's or comapny's agenda, usually reads "to gain a bigger market share" etc. why does anyone think i'm condoning this in any way? i'm simply stating facts. you think the big guys in mcd are sitting there saying "oh, i think we may have been a bit too mean this week... let's give that gig to AlphaRelish because we have more than enough to be getting on with..."? i doubt it.

My problem lies not with a company trying to increase their market share but with a company using a dominant market position to (allegedly) bully and intimidate those they see as "competing" with them. This is not a case of "business is business" - this is monopolistic behaviour, and it's illegal.

Proving it, however, is another thing entirely.

there's 2 big promoters in dublin and between them, they either own or have a stranglehold over most of the venues in the city. this is a fact. and they set the tickets prices at whatever amount they like. another fact.

And another fact is that this is borderline competition authority case material. Proving it, though blah blah blah

only uninformed people would think humanitat is not about making money. my point is that whatever measure are in place to stop this situation happening are obviously not working and that if people are annoyed by their favourite bands playing for these big promoters that they should go to the source of the problem or *boycot* (maybe that sits with you better?) the shows by refusing to pay over a certain amount for any gig (for me, it's around 20 euros).

Apart from not understanding the boycot reference, I agree.

why did you think i was saying that the practices of mcd or aiken or anyone who takes anyones else for a ride are ok?

"there's nothing wrong with mcd. mcd is a business that's good at making money. it doesn't pretend to be anything else. it's only coz you lot like music so much that they piss you off."

maybe you were eating the devils apricot though.

 

[Knacker]

Man, just got this in the Beards of Jesus e-mail account:


Hey,
Our quota for Irish bands has just be highered and we need to some more of you fuckers on our roster. We like the look of you guys. We want you to join us. We'll guarantee you that rock star lifestyle you crave. You will receive a free mullet hair-cut, vouchers for Objecthaus, backstage passes to Sunday night bingo in the George and lots of other goodies (including an alarm clock in the shape of a Coca-Cola bottle). We can also guarantee a column in Hot Press where you can list off your likes and dislikes.

So why don't you call down to us in our office on Middle Abbey Street for a free personality test and we'll assign you with your relative genre. We encourage to dump your loser indie friends and come on board our mothership. And through hard promotional work, you too may one day resort back to bringing out your own records and getting in touch with your acoustic roots.

Hope to hear from you soon Brian,

Bye now

MCD (Models, Cocks, Drugs).



[COLOR=#F1F1F1DFDFDF]Legal disclaimer: This is a load of bollix [/COLOR]

 

[Ex-User (1487)]

yeah, well i thought that was an obvious point. what they do obviously sucks. but, mcd is a business. and, like any other business, they operate in a manner which is hellbent on gaining control of what they do. it's the nature of business in general. if mcd wasn't doing it, someone else would be. mcd started off small once upon a time and became big because of certain practices they followed. and, obviously, some people have a problem with these practices.

but, as long as people are willing to pay the prices they charge, this just won't change... unless a case is made against them... but, even if a case is made against them, i have a feeling that their prices will always be above the odds. and i think inconsiderate artists and apathetic punters will always line their pockets. for anything to really change, they'll have to feel some sort of formidable force against them, not some letter saying that that they must operate under certain margins or else... they'll find a way around it... like basing their headquarters in bermuda or something.

so, the 2 groups which allow them to continue operating in such a manner are punters and artists. i'm sure ronan keating wouldn't be too mad on me booking his shows so it's really a subsection of the artists they book we're actually talking about here, right? i mean no one here gives a flying fuck how much brian adams tickets are, right? wrong. i do. i love summer of 69... people like tina turner are always going to go to the highest bidder... so, as usual, it comes down to what conderns us, directly, as a minority group. a handful of bands really is what we're talking about. and this handful of bands are, in general, contactable, like we can mail them and let them know what's happening. and if they have a mind to, they can do something about it.

i know this attitude is inherently flawed. i know it's a selfish standpoint. but, i'm at the stage in my life where if i see parents bringing their kids into hmv to buy westlife tickets, it doesn't make me want to run up to them and shake them saying "please, won't you please think of the children" ... i'm more inclined to just shake my head knowingly and forget about it instantly...

so, what's my point? errr... i'm kinda tired now. this kinda stuff doesn't matter enough or it hasn't mattered enough to ireland's general public for them to get up in arms about it. it matters to us, apparently, but only because they've started putting on bands we actually listen to. ref. my point about amature boxing we CAN actually do something about it, but only if the bands care enough about their fans... it's about solidarity .... squats ... dogs humping your leg ... and trans am. you have to cut them down at the knees, not stealing their hat ... they can just buy a new hat!!!

Originally posted by pete
My problem lies not with a company trying to increase their market share but with a company using a dominant market position to (allegedly) bully and intimidate those they see as "competing" with them. This is not a case of "business is business" - this is monopolistic behaviour, and it's illegal.

Proving it, however, is another thing entirely.

And another fact is that this is borderline competition authority case material. Proving it, though blah blah blah

Apart from not understanding the boycot reference, I agree.

"there's nothing wrong with mcd. mcd is a business that's good at making money. it doesn't pretend to be anything else. it's only coz you lot like music so much that they piss you off."

maybe you were eating the devils apricot though.

 

[madouva]

Refresh my memory Emma...

 

[madouva]

I am not getting drawn on this (for obvious reasons), but feel compelled to make a quick point:
1. I have heard a multitude of such "gazumps", and in fairness, they are not restricted to the one promoter. I can't believe no-one has raised the issue of the integrity of the venue in question. But you can't, 'cause everyone loves the place.

Is all. I'm off.

 

[old]

Originally posted by Knacker

C) How did Giddy Motors benefit from this (there was no-one there to see what they're like)?

Plus they weren't on a guarantee - just a percentage.
Which isn't a good thing.

I agree with Madouva on the gazumping.
Your agreement isn't with MCD, just with the venue.
Other folks have mentioned that an' all.

Thing is: most bands MCD book go through agents.
Don't agents usually book for a guarantee, then a percentage above after costs and built-in profit?
So are bands cleaning up when they play Dublin?
And is that why about 10 times more bands play now than did about 10 years ago?

 

[the snitch]

Fin, I'm emailing you

 

[madouva]

Snitch:
Best to email [email protected].

 

[DontMugYourself]

Originally posted by pete
Look.. I'm sorry, but this whole "oh well it happens, business is business nothing can be done about it so you better just roll over and accept it" attitude is just so fucked up.

Ryanair may be a fucked up company but they are competing with other airlines, resulting in lower fares across the board. This is good for the consumer - it's not that long ago that your only choice of airline to fly to english airports was Aer Lingus, and it cost an arm and a leg for a flight that now costs less than the taxi fare home from the airport.

While I fully take your points Pete (which are true) I dont feel that they apply to the music promotion business currently in Ireland. Increased competition in the promotion business does not lead to lower ticket prices for the following reason...

Ryanair offer a generic product (along with Aer Lingus or who ever). No one cares who they fly with. They just want to get there safely and at the cheapest price. Therefore by airlines dropping prices they are enticing customers and the consumer benefits from this competition. You dont have two Rolling Stones playing Dublin on the same night. MCD stones @€130 and AlphaRelish/Aiken/Whoever Stones @ €70. That way we could choose which one we want to go with and MCD might then change their position.

However, competion in the promotions business only results in higher ticket prices for the punter e.g. The Rolling Stones are comming to Dublin, Aikens tried to get them and MCD tried (and did) get them. If Aiken offer (example figures) €200,000 for them to play, then MCD offer €250,000 and then Aiken offer €300,000 and then MCD offer €350,000 and Aikens back off. Who do you think is paying for that extra €150,000 (its definately not MCD) They just pass on the extra costs to the average punter who will buy all the tickets up anyway 5 mins after they go on sale. We all suffer and there is nothing we can really do. not as far as I can see anyway.

Unless an independent promoter knows a rich sheik who wants to buy the Ambassador/The olympia for us??

Oh and someone please dont come back and say "who the fuck wants to see the rolling stones anyway?" I dont either...Its just an example. Also, somebody else said earlier that I was being condescending I didn't mean to be. Im just stating things as I see them

 

[silo]

Originally posted by DontMugYourself
You dont have two Rolling Stones playing Dublin on the same night. MCD stones @€130 and AlphaRelish/Aiken/Whoever Stones @ €70.

i think i may be able to help you there. you see, i am a manager of the rolling clones, an exact genetic copy of the rolling stones, generated from a thread of keith richard's hair in 1972.

 

[kstop]

Originally posted by silo
generated from a thread of keith richard's hair in 1972.

Keith's hair, eh? If their career doesn't take off you could cut em with borax and sell em to yuppies.