Kiddies being bullied (1 Viewer)

[george mcfly]

this big fat lad robbed a packet of dry roasted peanuts out of my lunchbox one day.. scoffed the lot of them

i got bullied by this lad in primary school.. i think he was an albino he had that white hair and freckles combo that disappeared out of the gene pool around the same time white dogshit disappeared

anyway his burd looks like Biffa Bacon's ma..so i guess he paid his price to the karma chameleon

 

[jane]

Actually, remembering my own childhood - when we got streamed when we went to secondary school I loved it cos there were more clever kids in the class. Nowadays I think streaming is awful

I think streaming has its strengths and weaknesses. Partial streaming can be great for students, but most students are strong in some areas and weaker in others. That said, I remember being really embarrassed at being pulled out of regular classes and sent to special nerd training. And of course, when the 'less smart' kids are streamed, it doesn't seem to be so that they can be at a comfortable level to find out what they're good at, it's just to keep them from distracting the swots, which is fucking lame. But streaming for different reasons might be okay in some contexts, but only if it will help the student to achieve, not as a way of lowering expectations. Too bad that appears to be the way it's done in too many places.

I wouldn't send my kids out to a hippie school so they'd only be around clever kids -- because anyway, I honestly don't think there's such a thing as a genuinely stupid child, only kids who haven't had the resources to find their strengths -- but to get an education that didn't focus on creating uniformity or getting everyone to score highly on a standardised exam. It's the approach to education, not the 'class' of student that would make me think it was a good idea.

The thing that would worry me would be that my kids (I can't believe I'm talking about kids I probably won't have for at least another 5 or 6 years, let alone have in school for another decade or so) would only be socialised in school with other kids who come from families who can afford private education (assuming I could afford it!), or who come from homes where education is prioritised enough within the family to educate them privately.

But that can be done. Any amount of social activity outside of the school environment can give them that.

What's fucked up is that private schools seem not to want to take on kids with learning difficulties. I'd actually imagine that if I had a kid with learning difficulties, a small, private school would be the place most able to give them the attention they needed! Hence: I would not send my kiddies to secondary school in Ireland, not in any way, shape or form. I would leave the country if I had to, but there's no way I would wish the Leaving Cert on my worst enemy.

 

[egg_]

The Leaving Cert isn't that bad Jane. It's better than having your earrings ripped out by a football team

 

[Super Dexta]

The Leaving Cert isn't that bad Jane. It's better than having your earrings ripped out by a football team

and also better than the US high school system by most accounts.

 

[jane]

and also better than the US high school system by most accounts.

The major difference between the LC and the various US systems is that the LC attempts to present an image of uniformity in education, as far as quality, standards, learning styles and student background, which is just not possible. Everyone has to take the leaving, but not everyone is on equal footing going into it. It's also a very poor way of judging potential for college, especially since college is a totally different type of learning. A student who gets the points for medicine may end up a shitty fucking doctor, may have proven him or herself good at regurgitating information, but can't problem-solve or think critically worth a shit.

The thing is, there is no 'US system'. Everything differs from state-to-state, and even from school-to-school, which means that a school in East LA does not have to conform to the same standards as a school in Posh White Wasp Suburb. Now, that EAst LA school may not be doing for its students what it should, and there are major problems with the way things are done, but oen thing that they do do is provide special incentives for young, enthusiastic teachers to teach in disadvantaged schools (a programme called Teach for America, established under Clinton), so that these schools at least have a good supply of teachers who haven't been burned out.

The exam system has nothing to do with whether or not kids are bullied in schools. The blind eye that is turned toward bullying and abuse in Ireland is not just in schools or in the church, it's EVERYWHERE, and it has nothing to do with the school system here, just as the school system in my town had nothing to do with the bunch of assholes doing the bullying, or those encouraging it.

The major difference, too, is that American colleges and universities interview every single applicant, and take into account a hell of a lot more than standardised test scores, which means that they take each student in the context of the environment from which each has come. This means that, even if the kid from East LA didn't get to do the stuff that Posh Wasp got to do, he or she has a better chance of being seen on his or her own terms, not compared with Posh Wasp, but measured against their own potential. They take into account strengths, interests, and potential, not just past achievements, and how interested you are in learning, not just how much information you can spit back. The SAT and Achievement tests (now called the SAT II) have only a nominal effect on college acceptance. Some colleges don't require you to take them at all, or will waive their minimum requirement for a student who is otherwise brimming with potential. Most people in education think the SAT should be scrapped, and that it's a money-making racket, and those who still take scores into account do so with a whole bunch of caveats in mind.

Having your education measured by an exam that pretends to be a level playing field when it is absolutely nothing more than a racket is a load of crap. The Leaving might not destroy the love of learning in a student who comes from a home where there are books, or where a priority is placed on the joy of knowledge, but it doesn't do much for a kid who might otherwise love learning but only gets to do it in an environment where there is little importance placed on anything but 'getting the points'.

The Leaving is a poor excuse for an assessment of any kind, and it does little more than perpetuate classism and emphasise conformity in a world where everyone, especially people in education, should be doing everything possible to combat these things. I have gotten into so many arguments about the Leaving, and most people seem to argue that I can't know what I'm talking about because I never sat it. But I have had to clean up the fucking mess it makes of young people's minds, and I think that's enough to be entitled to an opinion. There's also an attitude that, "We had to suffer through it, and so should they," which, well, I'm not even going to justify that.

And then they demand to know what can be used to replace it. You know what? Nothing. Having nothing would be better than an exam that doesn't demand any kind of intellectual input from the student, but is best mastered without thinking too much. That's the antithesis of learning.

Sorry for the big rant. I just can't imagine any reason to encourage standardised testing. It's bad for humans.

 

[billygannon]

There's at least one Andrews person on thumped...

Could you inform Pete of this, so they can be banned.

 

[egg_]

The Leaving Cert isn't that bad Jane. It's better than having your earrings ripped out by a football team

The blind eye that is turned toward bullying and abuse in Ireland is not just in schools or in the church, it's EVERYWHERE, and it has nothing to do with the school system here, just as the school system in my town had nothing to do with the bunch of assholes doing the bullying, or those encouraging it.

Aw Jane, go on outa that. I was only trying to express that my school experience, while hardly pleasant, was a hell of a lot less unpleasant than yours, and if you're going to send children to another country to be schooled there are a lot of things to consider besides the desirability of standardised testing

American colleges and universities interview every single applicant, and take into account a hell of a lot more than standardised test scores, which means that they take each student in the context of the environment from which each has come

Do you really think that, in Ireland, candidate interviews would work out less class-ist than the Leaving? I would be extremely surprised, especially when it comes to the high-status professions like medicine and law