Jaysus cycling! (1 Viewer)

Pedronimus

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I think the hi-viz should be worn by all.
I am against it. You don't see the Dutch or Danish draped in safety gear looking as if they are going on to a building site. It also sends the wrong message to non-cyclists that cycling is dangerous. And it isn't really. There are very few deaths in Ireland.

To make cycling safer you need more cyclists. Cyclists death numbers stay roughly the same no matter how many people cycle, so if more people cycle, relatively fewer cyclists die. Hmmm.....The number would be the same in abosulte terms so is that safer? Anyone an Actuary?

I also believe risk compensation plays a part in how you cycle. A friend of mine is horrified that I don't wear a helmet. In his words...

Him: I had to cycle home yesterday without my helmet. I felt very vunerable.
Me: That's a good thing, you probably took fewer risks.

The point was lost on him. I've been involved in a few chats on the boards cycling forum where someone wants to get more cycling armour to protect against falls when a pedestrian steps out or door opens. My suggestion of slowing down a bit when cycling through the city centre usually falls on deaf ears. I'm all for accident avoidance rather than damage limitation.
 

Pedronimus

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And you look like a DORK with a helmet on. When I was a helmet wearer, a few years ago cycling down Capel St, I passed a girl I knew and fancied. I didn't stop for a chat cos I knew right well I looked like a fucking mushroom.

Plus there's nothing like a cute girl on a bike with a nice woolly hat on. If helmet wearing takes over I will be denied this simple pleasure.
 

rettucs

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I've seen those discussions on boards. The problem with them is that all the 'cyclists should be safer' type discussions are mostly started by disgruntled motorists and comments tend to be quite flippant.

I don't disagree with what you said but I also don't think cycling safely and wearing safety gear are mutually exclusive. I'm sure you don't either, but it can be implied from what you say.

And I don't fully accept the argument about not seeing people in holland wearing hi-viz. Fair enough, they don't, but theres lots of them. Thats not the case here, and until it is I'll continue to wear mine. The reason I wear mine is for people pulling out of side streets. In traffic they tend to do this in more of a hurry than they should, but maybe understandably so. If you wear hi-viz theres more of a chance they'll see you out of the corner of their eye. In my experience this works.

But, each to their own.
 

Pedronimus

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I don't disagree with what you said but I also don't think cycling safely and wearing safety gear are mutually exclusive. I'm sure you don't either, but it can be implied from what you say.
I certainly don't think they are mutually exclusive. I still do some pretty retarded things on my bike, but I'll be the author of my own downfall in those situations. But in the city centre where the actions of others could endanger me, I am a very slow and patient rider.


And I don't fully accept the argument about not seeing people in holland wearing hi-viz. Fair enough, they don't, but theres lots of them. Thats not the case here, and until it is I'll continue to wear mine. The reason I wear mine is for people pulling out of side streets. In traffic they tend to do this in more of a hurry than they should, but maybe understandably so. If you wear hi-viz theres more of a chance they'll see you out of the corner of their eye. In my experience this works.

You can wear hi-viz and helmets all you like. I have nothing against the practice. I just chose not to. It's a moral issue with me. I have a stonking set of lights that i use to be seen, plus my debonair style.
 

moose

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I certainly don't think they are mutually exclusive. I still do some pretty retarded things on my bike, but I'll be the author of my own downfall in those situations. But in the city centre where the actions of others could endanger me, I am a very slow and patient rider.

You can wear hi-viz and helmets all you like. I have nothing against the practice. I just chose not to. It's a moral issue with me. I have a stonking set of lights that i use to be seen, plus my debonair style.

Any pics? Debonair style and cycling never really go hand in hand for me and I'm a pretty stylish guy.

I too go with good bright lights and taking it easy in town over h viz vests. I do see loads of people with a hi viz and no lights all the time. That seems stupid to me. I also one day stood and watched a bunch of people have their bikes taken off them by a cop for having no lights, I smiled.
 

Pedronimus

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Any pics?
None with me in work. This is about the nearest image I could find.

 

magicbastarder

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I am against it. You don't see the Dutch or Danish draped in safety gear looking as if they are going on to a building site.
you're arguing a chicken and egg scenario. it is safer making yourself more visible while cycling, largely due to motorist attitudes in ireland.
but you don't make it safer by making it more personally dangerous to you.

on the helmet argument, a helmet stopped my nose from being broken once, i reckon. i ended up doing more damage to the bike than me, which is either a good or a bad thing:
 

Pedronimus

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you're arguing a chicken and egg scenario. it is safer making yourself more visible while cycling, largely due to motorist attitudes in ireland.
but you don't make it safer by making it more personally dangerous to you.

I already said I use strong lights, often during the day and some of which are visible from the side. I also cycle in fairly assertive but patient manner. My problem with hi-viz is that alot of people seem to think that that's where it begins and ends as regards cycling safety. "Once we all wear hi-viz we'll all be safer". I don't think that is true. It also reinforces the notion that cycling is dangerous and I believe has a negative impact on encouraging people to cycle. I don't believe cycling is that dangerous, so IF by not wearing hi-viz I have doubled my chances of being in a bad accident from 0.000001% to 0.000002% then so be it.
 

CinnamonBoy

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Cipo is the Rocco Siffredi of cycling.

I don't use a helmet or a high viz. I cycle expecting the worst and that serves me well. I anticipate not being seen etc. If someone hits me and I can't do anything about it then fuck it, I've lived long enough, I'm happy enough to go on now at this stage.
 

oh shit

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Cipo is the Rocco Siffredi of cycling.

I don't use a helmet or a high viz. I cycle expecting the worst and that serves me well. I anticipate not being seen etc. If someone hits me and I can't do anything about it then fuck it, I've lived long enough, I'm happy enough to go on now at this stage.

I would honestly respect the decision to not wear a helmet so much more if people didn't make such poor arguments for it.

There are a few contradictory common phrases people conjoin when explaining why they don't wear helmets. The first is that 'helmets don't save you from being crushed by a lorry'. The second is that 'If I die, I've had a good innings'. But if it won't save you from dying anyway, then death is a bit of a red herring argument.

The point is not that helmets don't really save you from death, it's that they save you from everything that is not as severe (but often worse), such as serious brain damage and disfiguring injuries. Anecdotes: A good friend has been left with a speech impediment from a very innocuous crash. For the rest of his life. Simple accident, small crash. Brain damaged. For nothing. The other is former flatmate's sister is an intensive care nurse in a brain-injuries unit. She spent an interesting evening recounting the various cyclists in the unit, who will require varying levels of permanent care for the rest of their lives. Families left to look after vegetative loved ones, paralysed kids etc etc. So it's a pretty selfish position to adopt, the old 'i dont mind death'. Easy for you to say.

The third fallacy is that 'I'm being more careful' as a result of not having a helmet on. Really? As if helmets somehow change your personality making you less risk-averse? If you were actually being more careful, you'd just wear the helmet.

I wear a helmet out of habit, but then I do a moderate amount of medium-fast road riding in my spare time anyway, rather than just commuting, so that's a factor. Sometimes I don't even bother with it if I'm taking the backroads down to the market on my fixed gear runaround, so I can appreciate there are levels of calculated risk. But the only valid argument for not wearing one if you are riding on busy streets where literally anything might happen to you is that you just want to look cool. If more people just admitted that then fine, it's a free country. So why don't they?
 

error type 11

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It's not about looking cool, it's about not looking silly
The argument that they look silly doesn't really wash I think, there are many types of cycle helmet, if you think the type that the pro cyclists wear look stupid maybe a skateboarding type helmet might be a better style decision for you. I use both, basically the first type I find on the way out the door.
 

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