ISPs providing addresses of p2p users to the IRMA? (2 Viewers)

[Scientician 0.8]

I don't know the solution either but I love arguments about all this.

 

[ann post]

i know this is an unrealistic analogy... but if you went looking for your paycheck this friday and payroll just laughed and said, 84% of your wages have been downloaded this week, here's your 16%, how would you react??

maybe the point that i'd like to stress is that labels and organizations aside, the money has to come from somewhere, and people really aren't willing to hand it over any more. regardless of speculation of new models of industry (that dont exist yet), music is one of of the few jobs where if you are successful it still only may amount to 3-4 years of decent income for many years of labor. If this were happening in other industries it would be called slave labor and nobody would do it. but i'm kinda a glad because musicians can fuck off and die poor again.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

fuxake! i just typed a momumental response and then i couldn't post it and lost it cause my session timed out! fuck!

 

[Scientician 0.8]

Hate when that happens.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Well what might be a reasonable compromise would be a download licence you pay x amount for every year, that is enforced like a tv licence and this money goes to the labels/artists/whatever. THEN couple this with a drastic cutting in the cost of cd's, like 50% at least. It's not like they're expensive to produce. Do you think people would buy a whole lot more if they were much cheaper?

When it comes down to it the product is the music not the cd. Packaging is great but useless if the music is not.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

I have wondered about that. Your first idea is like treating music like a utility. I've read a few academic papers about that but I can't think of where I found them to link to them now.

I buy alot of cds for 7.99 etc. but then I suppose there are people who would never pay if they could get it free. Another idea I had that I'm sure has been posited before is something like a Jukebox/vending machine that you select 10 or 20 tracks and it burns you a cd and you pay 50c or something like that per track. If you make it simple to use it and payable by cash alot of people i think would use them, maybe some of the people who would otherwise download the tracks.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I buy alot of cds for 7.99 etc. but then I suppose there are people who would never pay if they could get it free.

7.99 is better than 22.50 anydayoftheweek!!!
whats a cd cost to make - like 1 euro?
hmmm...

 

[Scientician 0.8]

Maybe less than a euro. Economies of scale kick in. I pay emusic 21.00 euro a month or thereabouts for 90 downloads. It's not perfect, doesn't have all the music I want but it's pretty good.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

I have wondered about that. Your first idea is like treating music like a utility. I've read a few academic papers about that but I can't think of where I found them to link to them now.

I buy alot of cds for 7.99 etc. but then I suppose there are people who would never pay if they could get it free. Another idea I had that I'm sure has been posited before is something like a Jukebox/vending machine that you select 10 or 20 tracks and it burns you a cd and you pay 50c or something like that per track. If you make it simple to use it and payable by cash alot of people i think would use them, maybe some of the people who would otherwise download the tracks.

There is a very good talk by Richard Stallman from GNU aabout the future of copyright which i got off The Pirate Bay recently.

He goes through a lot of this ground in some detail - its well worth downloading,

 

[Scientician 0.8]

Do you have the exact title? I can't find it.

 

[Lili Marlene]

You really should pay for it before you hear it you know, I don't care who it's by

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Maybe less than a euro. Economies of scale kick in. I pay emusic 21.00 euro a month or thereabouts for 90 downloads. It's not perfect, doesn't have all the music I want but it's pretty good.

some of my friends use this alright and are quite happy with it.

on a semi-related note most independent records shops in dublin seem to be ceasing buyin in second hand cd's.....

from an email from a fella -

"From what i am seeing and hearing,generally people don't seem to care about sight nor sound............film is in as bad a shape because of sharing via hard drive swaps as music..............bottom line its free and leaves me more money for the clothes and the EVENT gigs....................which seem outrageous in pricing but people have no prob coughing up the cash.

Then again considering 70% of people seem to be listening to music via walkmans and phones i don't don't think sound design is part of the process."

 

[Deleted member 3435]

Great thread.

Almost all of what I buy these days is vinyl from charity/second hand places.

Seems to me that people won't give a shit about the monetary losses incurred unless it effects them or their wallets personally. For most people then, free music wins out over artist recoups pretty easily. So I can understand the motivation behind suing people, whether I agree with it or not.

Is it the case that people believe that all of the music they know and love would still have come into being and made it onto their record/cd players/radios even if record companies did not exist to do the business side of things?

I don't think it's just a matter of record companies being leeches. It's pretty naive to think that what we now know as popular music, or the "perfect pop song" (or reactions against it) would exist at all if not for record companies and radio and ...and..."the system".

Okay, so maybe now it is time for an entirely new thing. Maybe we should throw away our guitars bass and drums too, I dunno.

I'm just thinking aloud.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Do you have the exact title? I can't find it.

http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3705099/Richard_Stallman_in_Link__ping_20070517_-_Copyright_vs_Community_

 

[aoboa]

i know this is an unrealistic analogy... but if you went looking for your paycheck this friday and payroll just laughed and said, 84% of your wages have been downloaded this week, here's your 16%, how would you react??

It's more like - you get the same crappy paycheck as ever and payroll make a big song and dance about giving it to you because someone had just downloaded 84% of the bosses profits. You walk away thinking 'right on, f**k the Man'
No wonder the vast majority of people in bands don't mind downloading.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

or you get no paycheck at all because realisticall you will be 100 years paying off your advance on marketing and recording expenses.

In the meantime the record label you are deeply in hock to and who pay you nothing is whining and sending out solicitors letters to teenager for downloading tunes.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Everyone should download that Stallman talk and watch it a couple of times - it really clarified my thinking on these maters. It does tke a coupleof watch to understand the full implications of what he suggests.

 

[aoboa]

If the majors collapse because of this all the power goes back to the artists or at least to the indies who can adapt to change quickly.
So, what's wrong with this scenario again?

 

[Scientician 0.8]

Because the indies are suffering probably disproportionally more than the majors.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Because the indies are suffering probably disproportionally more than the majors.

They are all dead in the long run - it's just the majors have more financial clout and can hold out longer.