Iraq (1 Viewer)

[steve albino]

I have this theory that anti-war people refuse to accept that the elections in Iraq were a good thing because this would be sort of admitting they were wrong about the war.
Rather than be happy about people democratically electing their leaders after years of dictatorship people clutch at any straws they can find.

If there is a civil war in Iraq (I doubt it, the country will eventually break up into self-governed regions in my opinion) it won't be the fault of the americans, it is due to religious/ethnic differences. The americans didn't put Shia, Sunni and Kurds all in the one place to begin with.

Sunni and secular parties seek Iraq election rerun · Ruling party accused of blatant fraud in polls · Opposition threatens protests and boycott Jonathan Steele in Baghdad Thursday December 22, 2005 The Guardian A broad-based group of Sunni and secular parties called yesterday for a rerun of last week's Iraqi elections, claiming the ruling party in the country had engaged in blatant fraud. "We want a new election commission and we're going to ask the United Nations to help organise it," Thair al-Naqeeb, the spokesman for Ayad Allawi, the head of the Iraqi National List, told the Guardian last night. "We're going to ask for a new government to rule while the election is prepared. If our demands are not met, we will take further steps and create a lot of protest," he added. Mr Allawi was Washington's favourite to become prime minister in the new four-year parliament. His list includes liberals, communists, and representatives of several ethnic minorities, as well as secular Sunnis and Shias. It is considered to be the most balanced of any group in last week's poll and is firmly opposed to religion interfering in politics. But preliminary results announced this week gave it a worse score than it expected, and it will probably end up with barely half the 40 seats it has in the current parliament. Leaders of two Sunni blocks met Mr Allawi's allies at his headquarters yesterday to work out their strategy. They included the Islamist-led Consensus Front and a secular list run by a Sunni nationalists and former Ba'athist, Saleh al Mutlak. Although they did well in Iraq's western provinces, the Sunnis were disappointed not to have done better in the capital. They plan to meet again today with a larger group of parties. "We expect to sign a joint statement outlining our demands," Mr Naqeeb said. "I know it's not easy to rerun an election. But if they refuse, we will boycott the new parliament". Mr Allawi, who served for nine months as prime minister until April, is out of Iraq, but Mr Naqeeb said he was in constant touch with him and Mr Allawi approved fully of their actions. Allegations of fraud were already being made before results were announced. By Sunday, more than 1,000 witness statements of violations had been sent to the election commission. They ranged from claims of ballot-stuffing to the involvement of police and others security officials in partisan campaigning. http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1672397,00.html

 

[Latex lizzie]

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/conspiracy_theory/fullstory.asp?id=280

mmm none to surprising if this occurs.

 

[Latex lizzie]

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/ADA709C4-E277-47A5-939D-DDDA2EEF0CAA.htm

..new year.same shit.

 

[oh shit]

I have this theory that anti-war people refuse to accept that the elections in Iraq were a good thing because this would be sort of admitting they were wrong about the war.
Rather than be happy about people democratically electing their leaders after years of dictatorship people clutch at any straws they can find.

If there is a civil war in Iraq (I doubt it, the country will eventually break up into self-governed regions in my opinion) it won't be the fault of the americans, it is due to religious/ethnic differences. The americans didn't put Shia, Sunni and Kurds all in the one place to begin with.

i'd guess you haven't based your theory on the failed peacebuilding operations of the 1990s which held elections before there was stability or suitable infrastructure in place to actually make the elections meaningful and owned by the majority of the people.

i'd also question why you suppose that simply putting sunni, shia and kurds together is a natural recipe for conflict. that's a very arrogant colonialist attitude. the violence is not caused by 'religious/ethnic' difference.

however, the irony of you accusing anyone of clutching at straws to stubbornly defend an unsustainable argument is absolutely yummy. more please.

 

[spiritualtramp]

i'd also question why you suppose that simply putting sunni, shia and kurds together is a natural recipe for conflict. that's a very arrogant colonialist attitude. the violence is not caused by 'religious/ethnic' difference.

WTF?? Read my post that you quoted - I said I doubted there would be a civil war. Got that? Jesus christ, I don't think arabs are all crazy and intent on killing everyone.


I don't know why you are accusing me of being a "colonialist" for thinking Iraq would be better off divided into states according to Shia Sunni etc.


I think my opinion is rather anti-colonialist to me, as I don't think the creation of Iraq by drawing straight maps with rulers has benefited the people much. It would have been waaay better had TE Lawrence snitched about the plan to divide and rule the middle east as I think "Iraq" would now be loads of small countries divided into different ethnicitys/tribes etc.


If religion/ethnicity has nothing to do with the current violence in Iraq can you explain why Shia religous cermonies are constantly targeted?

however, the irony of you accusing anyone of clutching at straws to stubbornly defend an unsustainable argument is absolutely yummy. more please.

Where are the wings?

 

[pete]

the important thing is that we're playing an even bigger part in the war

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0105/shannon.html

 

[Latex lizzie]

US troops seize award-winning Iraqi journalist

Monday January 9, 2006

Guardian

American troops in Baghdad yesterday blasted their way into the home of an Iraqi journalist working for the Guardian and Channel 4, firing bullets into the bedroom where he was sleeping with his wife and children.
Ali Fadhil, who two months ago won the Foreign Press Association young journalist of the year award, was hooded and taken for questioning. He was released hours later.

Dr Fadhil is working with Guardian Films on an investigation for Channel 4's Dispatches programme into claims that tens of millions of dollars worth of Iraqi funds held by the Americans and British have been misused or misappropriated.

The troops told Dr Fadhil that they were looking for an Iraqi insurgent and seized video tapes he had shot for the programme. These have not yet been returned.

The director of the film, Callum Macrae, said yesterday: "The timing and nature of this raid is extremely disturbing. It is only a few days since we first approached the US authorities and told them Ali was doing this investigation, and asked them then to grant him an interview about our findings.

"We need a convincing assurance from the American authorities that this terrifying experience was not harassment and a crude attempt to discourage Ali's investigation."

Dr Fadhil was asleep with his wife, their three-year-old daughter, Sarah, and seven-month-old son, Adam, when the troops forced their way in.

"They fired into the bedroom where we were sleeping, then three soldiers came in. They rolled me on to the floor and tied my hands. When I tried to ask them what they were looking for they just told me to shut up," he said.

 

[Latex lizzie]

the trial farce continues..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1697992,00.html

 

[Latex lizzie]

Bush told Blair we're going to war, memo reveals
· PM backed invasion despite illegality warnings
· Plan to disguise US jets as UN planes
· Bush: postwar violence unlikely

Richard Norton-Taylor
Thursday February 2, 2006

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,5390333-111381,00.html

Tony Blair told President George Bush that he was "solidly" behind US plans to invade Iraq before he sought advice about the invasion's legality and despite the absence of a second UN resolution, according to a new account of the build-up to the war published today.
A memo of a two-hour meeting between the two leaders at the White House on January 31 2003 - nearly two months before the invasion - reveals that Mr Bush made it clear the US intended to invade whether or not there was a second resolution and even if UN inspectors found no evidence of a banned Iraqi weapons programme.

"The diplomatic strategy had to be arranged around the military planning", the president told Mr Blair. The prime minister is said to have raised no objection. He is quoted as saying he was "solidly with the president and ready to do whatever it took to disarm Saddam".

The disclosures come in a new edition of Lawless World, by Phillipe Sands, a QC and professor of international law at University College, London. Professor Sands last year exposed the doubts shared by Foreign Office lawyers about the legality of the invasion in disclosures which eventually forced the prime minister to publish the full legal advice given to him by the attorney general, Lord Goldsmith.

The memo seen by Prof Sands reveals:

· Mr Bush told the Mr Blair that the US was so worried about the failure to find hard evidence against Saddam that it thought of "flying U2 reconnaissance aircraft planes with fighter cover over Iraq, painted in UN colours". Mr Bush added: "If Saddam fired on them, he would be in breach [of UN resolutions]".

· Mr Bush even expressed the hope that a defector would be extracted from Iraq and give a "public presentation about Saddam's WMD". He is also said to have referred Mr Blair to a "small possibility" that Saddam would be "assassinated".

· Mr Blair told the US president that a second UN resolution would be an "insurance policy", providing "international cover, including with the Arabs" if anything went wrong with the military campaign, or if Saddam increased the stakes by burning oil wells, killing children, or fomenting internal divisions within Iraq.

· Mr Bush told the prime minister that he "thought it unlikely that there would be internecine warfare between the different religious and ethnic groups". Mr Blair did not demur, according to the book.

 

[broken arm]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Surviving the peace - the human face of conflict in Iraq (photo exhibition launch, Dublin) [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Exhibition of photography from Iraq,
6pm on Monday 13th February 2006,
at Trócaire, 12 Cathedral Street, Dublin 1.

Trócaire, in conjunction with Mines Advisory Group, will host an event to launch an exhibition of photography highlighting the humanitarian situation in Iraq.

Speakers include Kasra Mofarah, Executive Coordinator of NGO Coordination Committee for Iraq and Sean Sutton, award-winning photographer and information manager with Mines Advisory Group.

Further info from Deirdre Ní Cheallaigh
Emergency Unit, Trócaire
Maynooth, Co. Kildare
Ph: 01 505 3283

email [email protected]
[/FONT]

 

[Latex lizzie]

looks good thanks for that! will defo pop along.

in other news the US have said that they wont be staying in Iraq as long as they have in japan or germany! (still there after 60 years in both cases!) and the long term plan is to have no bases at all! stop that laughing down the back there!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1703970,00.html

 

[La La]

 

[Latex lizzie]

woah. explain?

 

[La La]

to answer your question gav:
i found that pic on the website of Al Rai, the station which released the latest Jill Carroll video and (thankfully) didnt fucking remove the sound like Al Jazeera have so far.


Explained here by AP

Millions of Iraqi Shiites marked their holiest day Thursday with processions, prayers and self-flagellation as stringent security prevented a repeat of major attacks by Sunni religious extremists on the annual Ashoura commemorations.

More than 1 million people braved gritty sandstorms to join rituals in Karbala, featuring blood-soaked processions and self-flagellation rites that mark the seventh-century death of the revered Shiite martyr, Imam Hussein, who is believed buried there.

Huge crowds turned out for Ashoura celebrations in Baghdad's Kazimiyah district and other Shiite shrines throughout the country.

In Karbala, the major Ashoura venue 50 miles south of Baghdad, about 8,000 security officers and extra Shiite militiamen frisked pilgrims and blocked vehicles to prevent attacks by Sunni Arab suicide bombers. In the past two years, attackers killed a total of more than 230 people on Ashoura.

U.S. unmanned, aerial drones flew overhead to help assure the safety of the worshippers, some of whom journeyed from as far as India and Pakistan.

Ashoura marks the death of Imam Hussein, grandson of the Prophet Muhammad, in the battle of Karbala in A.D. 680. The battle cemented the schism in Islam between Shiites and Sunnis. Shiites make up only about 15 percent of the world's Muslims but are the majority sect in Iraq.

The ceremonies occurred during heightened sectarian tensions between Shiites and Sunni Arabs, marked by a campaign of reprisal kidnappings and killings.

A Sunni Arab tribal chief, Sheik Rasheed Safi, and four relatives were found dead Thursday in Baghdad, police said. They had disappeared Wednesday after attending a funeral, said relatives, who claimed the five were abducted by Shiite death squads.

The United States is promoting efforts to form a new unity government comprising Shiites, Sunni Arabs and Kurds in hopes of luring Sunnis away from the insurgency.

In Karbala and elsewhere, marchers dressed in black, slapped chains across their backs until their clothes were soaked with blood. Others beat their heads with the flat side of long swords and knives until blood ran freely in a ritual banned under ousted leader Saddam Hussein, a Sunni.

"Although it is a sad day, I am very happy because I took part in these head-beating processions," said 10-year-old Haider Abbas Salim, whose face was covered in blood. "Imam Hussein's martyrdom teaches us manhood and that we shouldn't fear anything."

 

[hugh]

So it looks like the new Iraqi leader will be from the Dawa party. That's funny isn't it? During the Iran-Iraq war the Dawa were fighting Saddam and regarded as arch-terrorists by the US. Also accused of involvement in kidnappings, murder and truck bombings in Beirut - basically the Hamas of their day. Now they are simply "not the preffered choice" or something.

I just can't keep up sometimes.

 

[aoboa]

Finally:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/guantanamo/story/0,,1709256,00.html

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]UN report calls for closure of Guantánamo[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]· Prison breaks conventions on torture, say envoys
· Violent force-feeding of hunger strikers criticised[/FONT]

 

[Latex lizzie]

nasty.revisited.

http://www.aljazeerah.info/News arc...an TV Shows Harsh Abu Ghraib Abuse Photos.htm

 

[Latex lizzie]

clever little saddam.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/11C9363F-794D-4633-A21F-D53D6D75A6ED.htm

he told the US that 9/11 was gonna occur.

 

[aoboa]

Never fear, batman's here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4717696.stm

 

[Latex lizzie]

my respect for miller is at an all time low.