GPO to be turned into Shopping Mall? (1 Viewer)

[Shorty]

Sorry, just saw this thread now linked from the ambassador thread and I've been out of the country, but this is what's going to be put in place?! Fuck!

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_1011115.shtml

Note the key word use of Plaza. This won't be an open public place for people to freely congregate and converse, that's for sure.

 

[Wilbert]

Sorry, just saw this thread now linked from the ambassador thread and I've been out of the country, but this is what's going to be put in place?! Fuck!

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_1011115.shtml

Note the key word use of Plaza. This won't be an open public place for people to freely congregate and converse, that's for sure.

Isn't that just hanging about chatting? People "congregate and converse" around the Central Bank and guess what? They're all annoying emo-goth-twats asking you for a euro for the bus home.

 

[killy kill]

Is there anything people can do about this?Even if it's just a scabby petition?

 

[Wilbert]

Is there anything people can do about this?Even if it's just a scabby petition?

Where is that supposed to be in that illustration? With Arnotts where it is, it looks like it is facing where Roches Stores is. Doesn't look like the GPO to me.

 

[Richie]

That Arnott's thing is a separate project & not connected to whatever they're doing with the GPO, it's a new shopping street that they're proposing to link Henry St and Middle Abbey St. More info here:
http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=4542

 

[Wilbert]

That Arnott's thing is a separate project & not connected to whatever they're doing with the GPO, it's a new shopping street that they're proposing to link Henry St and Middle Abbey St. More info here:
http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=4542

That doesn't sound too bad. I don't think I'd miss what's already there.

 

[sarajane]

"it is generally considered that its presence has 'deadened' the area rather than adding to the vigour and attractiveness of O'Connell Street and the surrounding area." - from article.

That's crazy, its a historical building!! What does the big steel toothpick add to the attractiveness of o' connell street. I really don't understand why these people think that things that are "shiny" are more attractive.

 

[Wilbert]

"it is generally considered that its presence has 'deadened' the area rather than adding to the vigour and attractiveness of O'Connell Street and the surrounding area." - from article.

That's crazy, its a historical building!! What does the big steel toothpick add to the attractiveness of o' connell street. I really don't understand why these people think that things that are "shiny" are more attractive.

Well, O'Connell Street is not a particularly attractive street, so I've no problem with an attempt to improve it. I also quite like the toothpick.

I'm sure when the GPO was first built there were people moaning about preserving what was there before it. It's just a building. Not even a particularly nice building. The look and structure of it isn't changing, just what it is used for.

 

[Anthony]

if this was how they were going to present a heritage site, they might as well just knock the place down.

classic

 

[Diddles]

Is there anything people can do about this?Even if it's just a scabby petition?

Keep an eye out on www.dublincity.ie for the planning application (it's not up yet) and then write an objection to it. It's the only way to do anything about it.

 

[shitepipe]

Sorry, just saw this thread now linked from the ambassador thread and I've been out of the country, but this is what's going to be put in place?! Fuck!

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_1011115.shtml

Note the key word use of Plaza. This won't be an open public place for people to freely congregate and converse, that's for sure.

this has nothing to do with the GPO.

but if you still want to object lodge an objection to Dublin City Coucil it costs about 20 quid. if there are more than 12/13 valid objections (i think) it goes to An Bord Pleanala who are an independent board of adjudicators...

 

[Shorty]

Sorry, I didn't make it clear, but it is part of the "Northern Quarter" which will also include the GPO plan and the Carlton group's plan. The Arnott group's plan as pointed out in the link is bounded by Henry st, Liffey st., Middle Abbey st. and O'Connell st. and as such will be touching onto or linked to the GPO?

I would think about an bord pleanala (it's only €20 as you said) but currently don't have much faith in them what with fingal county council currently wanting to build a landfill over my parents house as well as what I've seen happen with Carrickmines. Not to mention Rossport and numerous other dodgy land dealings that an bord pleanala have steam rolled through.

Piazzas and squares and public spaces are great, but if it's a private concern, it won't be for everyone's benefit. Not everyone will be encouraged to congregate there, and if it's primarily shops and cafes, then it will mean paying money to sit down. We need more spaces that are for the public good, not more places that are for private profit with a side benefit for the moneyed public.

 

[jane]

Sorry, I didn't make it clear, but it is part of the "Northern Quarter" which will also include the GPO plan and the Carlton group's plan. The Arnott group's plan as pointed out in the link is bounded by Henry st, Liffey st., Middle Abbey st. and O'Connell st. and as such will be touching onto or linked to the GPO?

I would think about an bord pleanala (it's only €20 as you said) but currently don't have much faith in them what with fingal county council currently wanting to build a landfill over my parents house as well as what I've seen happen with Carrickmines. Not to mention Rossport and numerous other dodgy land dealings that an bord pleanala have steam rolled through.

Exactly. I mean, not to open the wound, but one of the problems with Carrickmines and with Tara is that they were dodgy deals, anything but transparent, and then anything that was even remotely 'transparent' was a supreme example of bad planning for the long-term. They were bad from the start, and then instead of being stopped (as if it was possible!) they ended up being challenged on heritage grounds, which really only come into the equation when it's too late to do more than damage control, and have kind of ended up being red herrings, allowing the government to delight in detracting attention from the overall crappy (non-existent) long-term planning strategy for the country.

The problem with this GPO thing is that they aren't knocking the building, so it can't really be challeged on heritage grounds because anything with a preservation order on it will probably be preserved. The challenge for 'public good' is not something that resonates with a lot of people, and it is much more difficult to get enough support to make a proper stink. It's a problem with the whole planning process, where there aren't enough points of access for the public throughout the process. By the time we hear about these things, the only thing people can do is make a planning objection. And it's not a worthless act, but yeah, I think most people who really care about the future of the city are well aware of how difficult it is to make a proper challenge.

The incinerator in Ringsend is another example. It's not so much the development, it's the lack of planning around it. Trucks speeding through, the destruction of a public amenity in the Shelly Banks and the South Wall, etc. And the 'advising' they get for these big projects is usually done by private contractors, which doesn't generally mean they have the public good in mind.

I can't think of many planning objections for major projects that have successfully been stopped, but maybe there are some?

That really sucks about the landfill and your folks' house. Fucking hell. Talk about bad planning.

And PS: No, I totally got what you were saying! I should have been clearer that I was agreeing with you, and assumed that you were totally unconvinced that the kinds of 'piazzas and squares' they're talking about are anything like 'public space'.

 

[Hair Iron Madin]

Sorry, I didn't make it clear, but it is part of the "Northern Quarter" which will also include the GPO plan and the Carlton group's plan. The Arnott group's plan as pointed out in the link is bounded by Henry st, Liffey st., Middle Abbey st. and O'Connell st. and as such will be touching onto or linked to the GPO?

I would think about an bord pleanala (it's only €20 as you said) but currently don't have much faith in them what with fingal county council currently wanting to build a landfill over my parents house as well as what I've seen happen with Carrickmines. Not to mention Rossport and numerous other dodgy land dealings that an bord pleanala have steam rolled through.

you should probably go in and investigate the plans in full before considering an objection to this.

As can be seen from the arial picture below the GPO remains untouched and if anything the addition of a new piazza area and thoroughfare to northside dublin in place of a deadend street serving disused old buildings (some wonderful old facades that could do with the maintanance too) and being faced with second rate shops all along the liffey street side, i think the new development would bring more life to the area.

the bone of contention seems to be the shopping, apartments and it not being designated as a total cultural quarter. but the development of the GPO as a museum would be a great attraction and if a private developer is willing to foot that as part of the bill to lash in cafes and shops then so be it. it would be more of a crime if they were going to be bulldozing one of the buildings there and the GPO, carlton, arnotts and independent newspapers all have preservation orders on them so we can all sleep soundly. add to the fact the horrendously designed penneys will be reclad i'd call this a worthwhile endeavour.

details about it can be read on the independents webpage link here

http://www.independent.ie/national-...-new-cultural-and-shopping-quarter-78059.html

 

[jane]

you should probably go in and investigate the plans in full before considering an objection to this.

As can be seen from the arial picture below the GPO remains untouched and if anything the addition of a new piazza area and thoroughfare to northside dublin in place of a deadend street serving disused old buildings (some wonderful old facades that could do with the maintanance too) and being faced with second rate shops all along the liffey street side, i think the new development would bring more life to the area.

the bone of contention seems to be the shopping, apartments and it not being designated as a total cultural quarter. but the development of the GPO as a museum would be a great attraction and if a private developer is willing to foot that as part of the bill to lash in cafes and shops then so be it. it would be more of a crime if they were going to be bulldozing one of the buildings there and the GPO, carlton, arnotts and independent newspapers all have preservation orders on them so we can all sleep soundly. add to the fact the horrendously designed penneys will be reclad i'd call this a worthwhile endeavour.





details about it can be read on the independents webpage link here

http://www.independent.ie/national-...-new-cultural-and-shopping-quarter-78059.html

Oh, the GPO as a museum would be cool, although it's a pity when a building's original use is no longer viable. I think what both shorty and I mean (and I can't speak for Shorty) is that by 'new life' they really mean 'new money' and there's a worry that it means 'can't sit down unless you're buying something'. It would be fantastic if we had the sort of public squares they have on the continent, where people just chill out on the sides of fountains and on benches and then, okay, a few outdoor cafes, etc. But this isn't the sort of thing that really gets included in the plan (i.e, by nature they don't really state what they mean by 'public').

It depends who is doing the development, and whether the place is designed with a genuine appreciation for the protected structures (I'm all for, by the way, modern ideas being infused with old ones, a la the IFI, which I think is a great building) or if they'll do so with an architectural contempt for what's already there.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

I think it would be great if the GPO were a museum.

 

[mamul]

cool. hopefully there will be some good shops. the northside usually sucks for shopping.

 

[Shorty]

Oh, the GPO as a museum would be cool, although it's a pity when a building's original use is no longer viable. I think what both shorty and I mean (and I can't speak for Shorty) is that by 'new life' they really mean 'new money' and there's a worry that it means 'can't sit down unless you're buying something'. It would be fantastic if we had the sort of public squares they have on the continent, where people just chill out on the sides of fountains and on benches and then, okay, a few outdoor cafes, etc. But this isn't the sort of thing that really gets included in the plan (i.e, by nature they don't really state what they mean by 'public').

No you're okay, that's pretty much exactly what I mean.
I've had some really great times just "hanging out and chatting" at the MACBA in Barcelona, watching the skaters, tourists, locals, old anarchists in their 60s and 70s going to the and from the CNT bookstore, etc. And that's just one public space/square amongst many in Barcelona. Something that even London is now trying to copy.

 

[Shorty]

you should probably go in and investigate the plans in full before considering an objection to this.

As can be seen from the arial picture below the GPO remains untouched and if anything the addition of a new piazza area and thoroughfare to northside dublin in place of a deadend street serving disused old buildings (some wonderful old facades that could do with the maintanance too) and being faced with second rate shops all along the liffey street side, i think the new development would bring more life to the area.

the bone of contention seems to be the shopping, apartments and it not being designated as a total cultural quarter. but the development of the GPO as a museum would be a great attraction and if a private developer is willing to foot that as part of the bill to lash in cafes and shops then so be it. it would be more of a crime if they were going to be bulldozing one of the buildings there and the GPO, carlton, arnotts and independent newspapers all have preservation orders on them so we can all sleep soundly. add to the fact the horrendously designed penneys will be reclad i'd call this a worthwhile endeavour.

I also kindof agree with what you're saying too and having actually worked in the GPO arcade before, I'd be glad to see it go. Princes st. is basically just the entrance to Arnotts car park anyway and with independent now gone goods and services deliveries wont be as prominent.

 

[Richie]

I really hope the GPO does get some kind of museum\'cultural' use instead of just a bunch of shops & apartments or whatever and that the Ambassador-as-central-library plan goes ahead.. O'Connell St desperately needs a few things to raise it above just being a second-rate shopping street. Pity they couldn't get the Abbey Theatre to relocate to the old Carlton Cinema site also (if it had to be moved away from its current site, at least).