Depression [Aware Helpline 1890 303 302] (1 Viewer)

[theweeyin]

Hi all
I need some advice. I'm going through yet another bout of the awful anxiety and I'm getting really sick of it! How many of you have had any dealing with CBT (cognative behaviour therapy)? Has it worked? I want to get rid of this prick forever because it is really doing my head in the way it keeps popping up.

Does anyone have any tips? I really need some advice right now

 

[La La]

im not sure im familiar at all with CBT: have you tried getting in touch with a counsellor in your area? they might be able to advise you as to what your options are and the best route.
best o luck
x

 

[Goff]

Hi all
I need some advice. I'm going through yet another bout of the awful anxiety and I'm getting really sick of it! How many of you have had any dealing with CBT (cognative behaviour therapy)? Has it worked? I want to get rid of this prick forever because it is really doing my head in the way it keeps popping up.

Does anyone have any tips? I really need some advice right now

It's a good way of getting through it. Depending on the counsellor. From what I've learned thru the past few years (for me anyway), it's probably about the best way to kick it. For good (here's hoping). I mean, I can still get stressed and all (although I can't actually remember the last time), but not in a can't-face-the-world kind of way.

Tony Bates wrote a deadly book on it called "Depression - A Commonsense Approach" (I put a link up somewhere else on this thread yonks ago), which is a great introduction and easy enough to read. And Paul Gilbert's "Overcoming Depression" is brilliant (but incredibly hard going at times).

It's really about changing how you view things. "Putting a spin on life", as it were. A positive spin. Which, when you think about it, is like what you do when you get depressed. Except that's putting a negative spin on things.

I definitely recommend starting with theTony Bates buke.

Main thing is to try and focus on the good things. And they're there. You might have to root them out, but they're there. You have to "turn it around". Take a negative thought and make it positive.

And smile, even though you don't mean it. Eventually you will.

 

[Deleted member 3435]

as i understand it CBT is based on the idea that most situations (within reason) are not inherently good or bad. it's all the other stuff and baggage that we bring along and our interpretations that decide how we feel. for example: single parent families can be grand. most of the problem for kids lies in their perception that they should have two parents, so it's not the thing itself, it's the baggage, and the power is with the person to "switch" the thought from negative to positive.

does this sound about right?

also, i read something once about how the brain is plastic, not fixed, and so you can kind of mould it. like if your anxious twenty four seven then your brain may eventually become a kind of anxiety machine.

sound fair enough?

there was a study done in th UK somewhere on taxi drivers. it was found that taxi drivers (particularly those who'd done the job for many years) had a more developed hypocampus than most. That's the part of the brain concerned with mental mapping and directions. this is coz they excercised it a lot.

i'm no expert, but CBT always makes lots of sense to me.

 

[BC]

CBT does work, though having a good counsellor is essential (though that pretty much goes without saying, it is worth stating - apologies if it appears patronising, i certainly do not wish to be). basically, the premise of it is that our thoughts determine our actions and reactions (both physical and mental) and our way of perceiving reality. which appears to me to be true.

make a note of the thoughts you have preceeding and during moments of anxiety, then consider them logically: break them down and you will discover that they are for the most part groundless, or at the very least extremely exaggerated. then look at the realistic and logical counter phrases or thoughts, which will be - by their very nature - much more grounded and postive.

this is the process, however a very simplified version of it. the benefit of a counsellor is that they can, through their objective status, suggest less-loaded and unnecessarilly / unrealistic ways of thinking and perceiving.

 

[Goff]

Here's the BUPA fact sheet on CBT.

http://hcd2.bupa.co.uk/fact_sheets/html/CBT.html

This, from the [FONT=Arial,helvetica] National Association of Cognitive-Behavioral Therapists[/FONT] (Whoever they are) at:

http://www.nacbt.org/whatiscbt.htm.

"CBT is based on the Cognitive Model of Emotional Response.
Cognitive-behavioral therapy is based on the scientific fact that our thoughts
cause our feelings and behaviors, not external things, like people, situations,
and events. The benefit of this fact is that we can change the way we think to
feel / act better even if the situation does not change."

And of course, the king of them all, Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_therapy

"It involves recognizing unhelpful patterns of thinking and reacting, then modifying or replacing these with more realistic or helpful ones. Its practitioners hold that typically clinical depression is associated with (although not necessarily caused by) negatively biased thinking and irrational thoughts."

There really is a lot to read about it. Start with Tony Bates. At least it's Irish based and has irish contact details. Tony is the Head of Clinical Psychology at St. James' Hostiple in Dublin. He was off for the last year compiling a report for the Govt. on Mental Health and is oft heard on Marian Finucane (jasus) talking about the issue of mental health.

Here's his buke:
http://www.aware.ie/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=53

Paul Gilbert does the intro to that one.

It's lovely out today. If you can, go out and sit with your face to the sun.

It's great.

 

[theweeyin]

Thanks man. Only problem is I'm in sunny Huddersfield in West Yorkshire and the weather is fairly crappy...(though I'm scottish)

Cheers for all the info though!!!!

 

[Squack]

so does anyone get really spaced on anti depressants? have been on them about a month and a half and feeling wired last few days, waking up in middle of night feeling off my bin

will this go on for much longer?

 

[Goff]

so does anyone get really spaced on anti depressants? have been on them about a month and a half and feeling wired last few days, waking up in middle of night feeling off my bin

will this go on for much longer?

You shouldn't really be freeling "spaced" on anti-depressants. If any side-effects are present, they shouldn't last more than about two weeks. Of course, that depends on a lot of factors, like you having the correct dosage, the correct medication, how your body reacts to them, whether or not you've been on them before, the type of Anti-D medication (SSRI or other). There are a few different side-effects that depend on your sex (which is a bit scary when you think about it).

But, if you're still feeling a little spaced, it might mean your dosage is too high. Tell your G.P. You may have to change type of tablet. Or NOT. But it's worth the conversation at least.

The waking up in the middle of the night thing may just be anxiety which - bizarrely- can be a side-effect of some anti-anxiety/anti-depressant medication. But you might notice your sleep is affected anyway, medication or not. It's one of the things about depression. For me, anyway.

Stay away from SEROXAT! The evidence is just too conflicting to see if it is more harmful than beneficial. It's just not worth it. Made me want to chuck myself from a height on more than one occasion. That all changed when I changed meds.

I wouldn't be too worried though. The main point is you're feeling better. And that's the most important thing. I suppose there's a reason they say don't operate heavy machinery while on the tablets.

 

[theweeyin]

so does anyone get really spaced on anti depressants? have been on them about a month and a half and feeling wired last few days, waking up in middle of night feeling off my bin

will this go on for much longer?

What time of day do you take them? I was adviced I might get drowsiness with mine so I decided to take them just before bed so I wouldnt start to get sleepy before the end of the day.

 

[Squack]

What time of day do you take them? I was adviced I might get drowsiness with mine so I decided to take them just before bed so I wouldnt start to get sleepy before the end of the day.

take em before i go to sleep too, but maybe am just tired, wake up in middle of night spaced sometimes
only 6 weeks so maybe body is still trying to adjust

 

[george mcfly]

Stay away from SEROXAT! The evidence is just too conflicting to see if it is more harmful than beneficial. It's just not worth it. Made me want to chuck myself from a height on more than one occasion. That all changed when I changed meds.

i thought seroxat was taken off the market here? i would seriously question any doctor who would prescribe that, considering the debate over it's effects.

 

[krystal]

squack - if they're seroxat or similar take them in the morning or they will disturb your sleep.

I've been on seroxat for months, they're not doing me much harm. But that said I was extremely, extremely reluctant to take them because I had heard all the horror stories too. I'm glad now I did though - I don't really feel like me, but I'm also not panicked and worried constantly.

I think a lot of the scares to do with them are with regard to teenagers and children who shouldn't be prescribed them cos their brains aren't fully formed and apparently can't handle them. Apart from being diagnosed to combat anxiety and depression, Seroxat is also given to serial sex offenders (it inhibits libido) and those with eating disorders (it makes you gobble). Nice. It can also be extremely hard to stop taking, but again I think that's mostly for long term users. You can't come off it suddenly and you have to do it under medical advice. I'm about to start reducing my dose so I shall see what happens...

 

[theweeyin]

I learned an interesting fact about anxiety/panic attacks last night. They can be the result of repressed anger or dissatisfaction about a situation in your life.....That's interesting but kinda scary too because you then have to work out what it is that you're not happy about and try to fix it. Any thoughts....?

 

[BC]

aye, the "flight or flight" response (which basically is what the panic attack is) is caused by adrenalin, which is stimulated not only by stress, but also by agression and anger. the purpose of CBT is to identify the thoughts that are leading to, or intensifying, these feelings, and then to break them down and see them as groundless or exaggerated, and then use alternative ways of thinking.
anxiety disorders and depressions can be treated to some extent with medication, but the use of something like CBT along side it can be extremely effective.

 

[BC]

regarding SSRIs... to a fairly significant degree, the hype surrounding the possibly harmful effects of seroxat are the product of sensationalist media articles more than anything else. there are a huge amount of people who have used it without any major ill effects (not, of course, that i am belittling the cases where people have had extremely bad reactions).

the reduction of libido is a side effect fairly common to many types of SSRIs, including the commonly perscribed cipramil. however, this side effect is not experienced by all users. in fact, cipramil seems to be in some ways the "easiest" (for want of a better word) SSRI, with many users prefering it to prozac, for instance.

 

[Goff]

regarding SSRIs... to a fairly significant degree, the hype surrounding the possibly harmful effects of seroxat are the product of sensationalist media articles more than anything else. there are a huge amount of people who have used it without any major ill effects (not, of course, that i am belittling the cases where people have had extremely bad reactions).
/quote]

I'm biased against it for two reasons. One, it just didn't suit and made everything worse. Almost lethally worse. Two, the fact that the media highlighted the company's completely dishonest way of "hiding" the dangers (especially in relation to teenagers and the potentially lethal side-effects) is not, in my opinion, media hype, rather a public service (which is one of the resasons the media is supposed to be there for). Had my doctor known of the side-effects, he would never have prescribed it. His words, not mine. He has stopped prescribing it to all patients, regardless of age.

However, I know it has helped some people. But there are other, less risky drugs out there. So, if it's working out for you, great. Just not for me. Or anyone under the age of eighteen in the UK, as they're no longer allowed.

The thing is, all those drugs are mind-altering to some degree. So it really does depend on the individual and their chemical make-up.

Re the Anxiety/panic attack repressed anger Q. Yeah, Brian's right. That's one of the points of CBT. Usually, there's something there from childhood. Though not always. Sometimes, it's just a case of your perception of things being skewed and built up over a long time. Fear and anger and all other negative emotions can get mixed up or exaggerated.

Check this out:
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/medicine/7001525ad18aa010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. I so look forward to it.

 

[BC]

i am sorry to hear you went through so much badness on the stuff, hope things are much better now.

again, i'm not going to belittle anyone's negative experience due to that particular drug.

you raised the very important point that each individual will react differently to individual psycho-active drugs. while we can see that certain effects are mostly likely, the actual effects on the individual can vary wildly. i cannot stress the importance of talking to your doctors hard enough: if you are having persistent unwanted effects as a result of something they are perscribing you, do tell them. do research the drugs yourself (very easy thanks to the internet these days) and do question the doctors on it.

hope all are well.

 

[Hott Indie Boy]

regarding SSRIs... to a fairly significant degree, the hype surrounding the possibly harmful effects of seroxat are the product of sensationalist media articles more than anything else. there are a huge amount of people who have used it without any major ill effects (not, of course, that i am belittling the cases where people have had extremely bad reactions).

the reduction of libido is a side effect fairly common to many types of SSRIs, including the commonly perscribed cipramil. however, this side effect is not experienced by all users. in fact, cipramil seems to be in some ways the "easiest" (for want of a better word) SSRI, with many users prefering it to prozac, for instance.

yeah i was on cipramil and i'd no trouble with it at all, apart from shakes and nausea in the first few weeks. i'd take it again if i had to, no bother.

 

[Goff]

i cannot stress the importance of talking to your doctors hard enough:

Yeah, definitely talk to your doctor. At the very least. And definitely, if you can, get some counselling. Here's the thing. Everyone is different. Everyone reacts differently. With medication, to life, to events, to stress, to pressure, to everything. There's no catch all cure. A counsellor will help YOU to find out the cause (if indeed it's emotional/experience based and not just chemical). But it's not like Good Will Hunting. One big cry and it all comes out is not necessarily going to sort out your life.

But it's a start.

Thanks for the good wishes. I'm doing great now.

Keep smiling.