CPSU Strike 26/2/09 (1 Viewer)

[rettucs]

I heard the unemployed are threatening to come out in sympathy.

yeah, they're threatening to do some work

 

[MDR]

One thing I'm a little hazy on too, and please correct me if I'm wrong. The levy came out of negotiations/talks between the government and I'm guessing the social partners right?

Aren't the public service unions part of the social partners and as such they agreed to the levy and it's their membership who, whatever the rights and wrongs of the agreement, are kicking up the fuss. If that's the case what's the attitude of workers towards their union leaders right now?

According to the newspapers, at about 9.30pm on the last day of the talks the Govt proposed the pension levy for the first time - the unions said they couldn't agree to it and walked out, so the talks collapsed and there was no social partnership agreement. In other words the unions didn't sign up to it or agree it on behalf of their members.

 

[Moods For Mallards]

I suppose the thing that private sector workers have to bear in mind before they give it the old "good for them, fuckin' lazy cushy numbered bastards" is that the effective salary cuts in the public sector only makes it easier for private firms to pass off their own cuts as "the only option in the current climate". My company has already done this, with an unconvincing case to my mind.

 

[magicbastarder]

Under the levy I will now have to pay another 4.8% or thereabouts (an extra €4,111 a year after tax relief).

i think you just gave away your salary there.

i know someone who passed by a picket earlier, and was approached by a guy with a bucket looking for money to 'support the workers'.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

don't be - he's management scum

less of the management knocking,its not easy you know.all this slashing of costs (read wages) really takes its toll.

 

[MDR]

i know someone who passed by a picket earlier, and was approached by a guy with a bucket looking for money to 'support the workers'.

One of the woman here got her hair done for the picket. Everyone's different I suppose.

 

[damien]

If you retire on €24K, your civil service pension would be €12K, but as that is reduced by your social welfare entitlement (old age pension of €12K) they would get no civil service pension, and yet they will have to pay the new levy. Someone on €24K will pay 4.6% of their salary towards the levy (as well as full PRSI and 6.5% contribution mentioned above).

Shocking.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

so theyre paying for something they wont get?

 

[hugh]

There are also all sorts of other anomalies about this. For example someone was telling me today about their wife, who is on a short-term research contract in a University - no pension associated with the position at all - still will be subject to the levy.

It really is just a tax hike for one segment of society.

 

[hugh]

If you retire on €24K ....

Is it actually possible to retire on €24K in one of these jobs though? To retire at €24K you would have to had a load of years service which would mean €24K is the very top of the pay scale for that position. Are there public service jobs where €24K is the top of the scale?

 

[F. Fred Palakon]

Is it actually possible to retire on €24K in one of these jobs though? To retire at €24K you would have to had a load of years service which would mean €24K is the very top of the pay scale for that position. Are there public service jobs where €24K is the top of the scale?

Yes. Cleaners.

http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/circulars/circulars2008/paysept2008.pdf

 

[niallmc]

The way I see it is the CPSU membership are withdrawing their labour for a day, not trying to shut the country down. They have no problem with me passing their picket, my union tells me to pass their picket, so I'll be passing their picket just like the CPSU members passed the one I was on a few years back.

Plus I'll be in work way before any of those lazebags even turn up.

The CPSU are participating in an official one day stoppage, one day industrial action. They asked other unions to support them, other unions said they have their proposals and cpsu went ahead. Your union said to go to work, crossing the picket is a personal decision. It's a picket line, regardless of past history it should not have been crossed by a trade union member

 

[Gambra]

The CPSU are participating in an official one day stoppage, one day industrial action. They asked other unions to support them, other unions said they have their proposals and cpsu went ahead. Your union said to go to work, crossing the picket is a personal decision. It's a picket line, regardless of past history it should not have been crossed by a trade union member

I'd agree with this, to me a picket is a picket no matter what the union is saying (they're mostly doing that to cover themselves in their own negotiations) and I've yet to cross a single one.

 

[MDR]

Is it actually possible to retire on €24K in one of these jobs though? To retire at €24K you would have to had a load of years service which would mean €24K is the very top of the pay scale for that position. Are there public service jobs where €24K is the top of the scale?

Good point Hugh - the max of a cleaners scale is about 24K though and many women who rejoined the civil service in recent years (after leaving because of the 19070s marriage ban) are on job sharing arrangements or have shorter service records and would be hit too.

Even a clerical officer (the people striking today) who finishes a 40 year career on the top of their scale (about 38K) will pay about €1800 extra a year through the levy on top of the 6.5% pension contribution and PRSI. Their total civil service pension will be about €7k a year on top of their social welfare pension.

Also membership of the pension scheme is compulsory.

 

[TenRabbits]

i think you just gave away your salary there.

€85,645 by my calculations. Nice work dude!

My missus' ma is a cleaner, and as I'm sure you can imagine is less than happy with this plan.

Interesting view on this in the Irish Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0211/1233867931621.html

 

[Cormcolash]

I'd see crossing a picket line as very much a personal decision that would depend on the circumstances of the time.
I don't think there's anything wrong with crossing a picket line, if you have good reasons for it, or if you just plain disagree with what the picket is about. That's all down to personal judgement, and very much depends upon the context and the issue at hand.

 

[Willie Willions]

I've never crossed a picket line in my life.
Having said that, I've never had a job either.

 

[niallmc]

I'd see crossing a picket line as very much a personal decision that would depend on the circumstances of the time.
I don't think there's anything wrong with crossing a picket line, if you have good reasons for it, or if you just plain disagree with what the picket is about. That's all down to personal judgement, and very much depends upon the context and the issue at hand.

if working people have an official dispute with their employers my personal judgement is that it's important that people show solidarity with them. Every action we take comes down to personal judgement.

 

[MDR]

Here is the ICTU letter about it (ICTU is the umbrella union covering pretty much all unions), copied from politics.ie:

Dear Member,

The Executive Committee has met again to-day to review the Union’s role in the ICTU Campaign in Support of the Ten Point Plan – There is a Better Fairer Way”.

As you know, the Ballot on Industrial Action which is under way was conducted by the Executive Committee on the basis that “Any action to be taken will be co-ordinated by the Public Services Committee of ICTU across the Public Service as a whole in order to maximise impact”.

It has become clear that, for various logistical reasons, most Unions in the Public Service will not be in a position to take strike action in the next week or two.

In addition, the ICTU has taken the position that all possible action should be concentrated on making a success of this Saturday’s Demonstration in support of the ICTU Programme, which includes a demand for a fairer position on the Pension Levy. In that context, ICTU is, of course, anxious to resolve the existing problems on the basis of the ICTU Plan which has been published in the press and is not anxious that any other action be taken, pending a meeting of the ICTU Executive Council, so that any further action can be on a co-ordinated basis.

In this context, and bearing in mind that the CPSU was closing a ballot last night on a programme which envisaged a day of strike action by their members in the Public Service next Thursday, the Union had suggested to CPSU that they might defer taking action until there could be general co-ordinated action across the Public Service on the grounds that that would be more effective – unless, of course, the matter is resolved by substantive discussions between ICTU and the Government in the meantime. CPSU were not in a position to accede to this suggestion.

Taking account of the ICTU position mentioned above, the Executive Committee, while it respects the decision of the CPSU to take whatever action it considers necessary, has decided that this Union will not engage in strike action on Thursday next but will, instead, wait to participate in general action across a wide span of Trade Unions (assuming that the Union’s Ballot is in favour of the Programme of Industrial Action proposed by the Executive Committee) should it prove to be necessary

I should mention that, as you know, the Executive Committee has already decided that, if the members agree to strike action, members in Social Welfare Local Offices will be exempted. The Union understands that CPSU are not in a position to give a similar exemption.

The Executive Committee has considered a letter from CPSU requesting that members of this Union would observe the normal trade union practice during that Union’s dispute.

In accordance with normal ICTU Disputes and Picketing Policy, where a particular Trade Union has a dispute in an employment where members of other trade unions work and the dispute is not an “All-Out ICTU Strike”, the normal procedure is that the members of other Unions should attend for duty in the normal way but should not do the work of the people in dispute.

In the context of the projected CPSU Dispute next Thursday, therefore, the advice of the Executive Committee to members in locations where the CPSU are on strike is as follows:

(a) Members should attend for Duty in the Normal Way;

(b) Members should do their own work; and

(c) Members should not, under any circumstances, do the work of the CPSU Members who are on strike.

All Members are urged to participate in the Demonstration on Saturday.

The Executive Committee will be meeting again next week and a further communication will issue to members.

Please make sure that this circular is issued to all members.



Yours sincerely,

 

[wageslave]

The thing is that the CPSU strike was against the pension levy. If they hadn't balloted and gone out today there's no way the other ICTU unions would even be balloting.
The fact that the ICTU unions are balloting for a strike which will be called off if the government agrees to hold talks with them makes me doubt there'll even be a strike on march 30th.