Citizenship Tossers (1 Viewer)

[TenRabbits]

Actually.. what advantages does citizenship have? I'm a nordie, so automatically have dual citizenship (at least I did when I got my southern passport). The only thing that having an Irish passport has ever done for me is get me rectally examined. That'll teach me to give them the wrong passport (without the entry visa which was in my Irish passport) to the customs guy leaving turkey. Of course I compounded the problem by absentmindedly taking it back off him and giving him the one with the stamp in it when he queried that lack of visa.

D'oh.

 

[classic seanc]

There's tax advantages to dual citizenship isn't there?

 

[ICUH8N]

There's tax advantages to dual citizenship isn't there?

Wuh? Not that I know of.

 

[KokaneeCowgirl]

I dunno about any tax advantages, to be honest.

What can I say about why I want it other than I have been living here, working here, my life is here, I pay taxes, etc. etc. and I feel like it's the next step for me.

 

[Catwoman]

Actually.. what advantages does citizenship have?

As far as I can tell, just the voting thing. I'm a Brit so I can vote in all elections but not referenda.

 

[Doctor Muscles]

There's tax advantages to dual citizenship isn't there?

They let you pay tax to two governments.

 

[classic seanc]

Wuh? Not that I know of.

Intra EU citizenship doesn't do a whole lot I don't think, though the UK and Germany had an arguement about Germans having something called "Eurobonds" in the UK because of the different tax rates. But I dunno, tax is complicated.

My flatmate has Irish/UK/US citizenship and he gets a lot of perks. Though I don't know how much of it it because of the multi citizenship and how much of it is because of his work, he works in an Embassy. I must ask him.

 

[TenRabbits]

I thought having more than two passports is illegal tho? Other nordies I know that have emigrated have had to give up one..

 

[KokaneeCowgirl]

No it's not illegal to have more than one passport, as long as the countries giving them allow holders to have dual citizenship. Otherwise you can't.

 

[avernus]

it's only illegal if you're like Jason Bourne or something...

 

[TenRabbits]

No it's not illegal to have more than one passport, as long as the countries giving them allow holders to have dual citizenship. Otherwise you can't.

I don't mean two passports tho - I mean MORE than two - i.e. I'm a citizen of both northern ireland and the republic automatically.. but if I emigrate somewhere else I'll have to give one up non?

 

[Mormon Nailer]

I have heard of people with 3 passports

 

[jane]

I think it's a really big deal that they've closed off so many avenues for citizenship. For one, it means that if you are foreign, your right to remain in the country is maintained for many years by someone else. If they treat you like crap, you feel completely powerless, and believe me, I can't talk about it on the internet, but I will tell you from experience that it's absolutely fucking soul destroying to have to go through that.

And to me, voting is incredibly important. To lack that power in the country where I've built my life makes me not just feel like, but actually *be* a second-class person (because I'm not anything like a 'citizen' here).

The whole getting rid of citizenship by marriage is bullshit, and it was just passed very quietly without anyone knowing about it. I don't give a toss why someone gets married. Hell, people get married for tax breaks, for the sake of children, just to make their parents happy -- why is getting married so that you can legally be somewhere any different? Personally, I wouldn't do it anyway because I still believe that marriage would mean something for me, and I wouldn't want to squander it for a passport. But I have absolutely no problem with other people doing it. I also don't think it's so common that it was necessary to make it even more difficult even for people who genuinely love each other to get married. And anyway, when you've got people who are out of the immigration system now because they're married to Irish citizens, what does anyone care if the people genuinely love each other madly? Sure, the government has less paperwork, a person can now get a job without an employer having to jump through hoops to hire them -- who cares?

After what I've been through for the last seven years, having no legal rights here, being barely considered human, at the whim of someone else's threats, and to know that there is no payoff at the end? It may not sound like a very big deal, but I'll tell you what, it fucking is a majorly huge deal, and it has been totally soul-destroying for me. The number one stress in my life is that I do not have primary control over my permission to stay in this country. I am here legally, but someone else, someone who would very, holds every single bit of the power to get rid of me, and I'd get in trouble if I said any more. Not that I expect anyone to believe me, but the number two stress in my life is that people find the situation so unbelievable that they dismiss it as me being paranoid, when it's fucking not. And the more people say, "Oh, something will work out," the more powerless I feel because I can't ignore it, and I can't talk about it with anyone because they think I'm making a big deal out of absolutely nothing. There may be things I can do to stay here, but they won't make for a very pleasant life. Of course, right now, I'm stuck here until I finish my PhD, in a state of limbo after which there will be no payoff. I don't want to be an academic, so my PhD is pretty much meaningless, and not a single day of my time here counts. It's almost impossible to get the indentured servitude that is a work permit, and, well, think about how many people here hate their jobs and have bosses who abuse their power. Now think about if that person had absolute power over your life (because they fucking do), how that might feel? Imagine if you married someone, and your only leave to remain was through them and he or she beat the hell out of you, and the only support system you had was here in Ireland? When people are deprived of their autonomy like that, it's not good for anyone.

Anyway, I'm not coming back to this thread because I can't bear to read the fucking fault finding and accusations because blah blah blah, I walked into the situation. I fucking know that. Of course, when I got here, the situation was a hell of a lot different than it is now. I don't need to hear about why the system is actually fair because it's more important to prevent abuses than to give people rights, or that I'm just a whiny cunt because that inevitably happens, too. Everyone thinks it's someone else's problem, but it isn't. It affects real people. There's no such thing as a green card in IReland. You can't get citizenship here unless you are of Irish blood, which is like Nazi fucking Germany, if you ask me. You can still buy a passport off the government, though, if you have a few hundred grand. And if you are from the right corporate sector, you can stay, but not if you're a normal person. It's completely fucked. It's not only that people seem to think it's someone else's problem, the fact is that the very people it affects are the people who have little power to change it. We can't vote. Only EU citizens and Irish people can vote, and they're the people whom it affects the least. The more people say, "I don't see what the big deal is" the closer Ireland gets to locking up anyone who doesn't have ginger hair and freckles. It bugs me a lot that I can't vote to change my situation, and that the people who can don't actually give a shit.

Anyway, that's just my own experience of why citizenship is a big deal when you're a non-EU citizen in Ireland. Someone else's might be different, but it's been a fucking non-stop nightmare for me.

 

[Osama Van Halen]

why did they do that anyway? and why? to stop convenience citizenship marriages? pretty cynical if so.

TO STOP PEOPLE MAKING FILMS LIKE 'GREEN CARD'... FUCKIN' AWFUL SHIT.

I'M JUST BACK FROM CANADA WHERE THE GREENERY IS AMAZING. SPANDEX IS FOR NOTHIN' AND THE PEOPLE ARE CIVIL. I'D LEAVE YOUR 'HUSBAND' AND HEAD STRAIGHT BACK. THIS PLACE IS A DISGRACE.


ALLAHQUAAANNNNDDDOOOO!!!!

 

[Mormon Nailer]

And to me, voting is incredibly important. To lack that power in the country where I've built my life makes me not just feel like, but actually *be* a second-class person (because I'm not anything like a 'citizen' here).

You can vote in local elections. You can even run in local elections if you fell strongly enough to do - which I guess you do.

The whole getting rid of citizenship by marriage is bullshit, and it was just passed very quietly without anyone knowing about it. I don't give a toss why someone gets married. Hell, people get married for tax breaks, for the sake of children, just to make their parents happy -- why is getting married so that you can legally be somewhere any different?

You kind of trampled yoour own point here didn't you. Sureley if marriage is so meaningless that is less rather than more incentice to grant automatic citizenship with it.

After what I've been through for the last seven years, having no legal rights here, being barely considered human, at the whim of someone else's threats, and to know that there is no payoff at the end?

!zed !zed !zed

You can't get citizenship here unless you are of Irish blood, which is like Nazi fucking Germany, if you ask me.

No one did ask you. That's untrue and insulting.
http://oasis.gov.ie/moving_country/..._an_irish_citizen_through_naturalisation.html

Only EU citizens and Irish people can vote, and they're the people whom it affects the least. The more people say, "I don't see what the big deal is" the closer Ireland gets to locking up anyone who doesn't have ginger hair and freckles.

Not true. If it effects you so much and you are so worked up about it you should at least get your fucking facts straight.

Everyone can vote in local government elections. Irish and UK citizens can vote in general elections and all EU citizend can vote in EU elections.

 

[jane]

You can vote in local elections. You can even run in local elections if you fell strongly enough to do - which I guess you do.

You kind of trampled yoour own point here didn't you. Sureley if marriage is so meaningless that is less rather than more incentice to grant automatic citizenship with it.

!zed !zed !zed

No one did ask you. That's untrue and insulting.
http://oasis.gov.ie/moving_country/..._an_irish_citizen_through_naturalisation.html

Not true. If it effects you so much and you are so worked up about it you should at least get your fucking facts straight.

Everyone can vote in local government elections. Irish and UK citizens can vote in general elections and all EU citizend can vote in EU elections.

Um, I do vote in local elections. But citizenship issues are not decided by local politicians. And I've lobbied my local politicians for stuff, and have always been very involved, but the fact is, the issue is more ambiguous than what's on paper. There's a constant awareness that my local TD doesn't have any reason to listen to me except out of the goodness of his own heart. He won't get a vote off me. That's not something you can look up on the internet, it's a genuine experience of what it is like for me to live here. It's easy for you to dismiss because you have more rights than I do, and you've decided that my experience is invalid because you don't think it matters. And to be honest, that's part of what bugs me. That someone who has more power to change my situation than I do thinks my experience is entirely invalid. I made it very clear that this was me speaking from my experience, and that not everyone would have the same one. But you chose to ignore that.

Anyway, I pointed out VERY CLEARLY that Irish and EU citizens can vote. I didn't have my facts wrong, you're just too much of a cunt to bother reading what I wrote. I write long posts because people do nothing but fault find whatever the fuck I say, and then everyone complains that I write long posts that no one feels like reading. Then I end up having to defend myself anyway, because on Thumped, it's not okay to have a strong opinion unless it meets cynical jaded hipster approval.

In order to get residency, you have to live here under the indentured servitude of the work permit system for three years. Only then can you start the ball rolling for citizenship. The work permit system is fucking barbaric. I was just pointing out that while it doesn't seem like a 'big deal' if you look at it on paper, the practicality of how it works on a daily basis sometimes makes things extremely difficult.

And cue Mormon Nailer sending me more abusive PMs like he did a couple months ago. Blah blah blah.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

from the oasis.gov.ie website

`Make a declaration of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State `


what the fuck is that?i never had to do any such thing as an irish born citizen so why should anyone else?this country is full of institutionalised racism,if yr white/of western origin youll have no problem getting a job even if it is illegal,anyone else is fucked.
and as for the naturalisation laws;anyone who is willing to work here for say two years should automatically be granted citizenship,god knows we need the workers.

 

[TenRabbits]

It's a shit situation Jane.. and one that invariably will fuck up the Irish economy. It's hard to have a celtic tiger when all the celts have no interests in being at the bottom of the economic ladder, and won't let in people who willingly would be. You just end with increased service costs/spiralling taxes on everything (sound familiar?).

Moronic.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

eloquently put

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Anyway, I pointed out VERY CLEARLY that Irish and EU citizens can vote. I didn't have my facts wrong, you're just too much of a cunt to bother reading what I wrote.

You dont have to have "Irish blood" to be naturalised as you said - you were wrong.

It is not just Irish Citizens who can vote in general evections as you said - UK citizens can to - again wrong

You can still get citienship through marrige - you just have to go thorugh the naturalisation process it is not automatic - so again wrong there

I write long posts because people do nothing but fault find whatever the fuck I say, and then everyone complains that I write long posts that no one feels like reading. Then I end up having to defend myself anyway, because on Thumped, it's not okay to have a strong opinion unless it meets cynical jaded hipster approval.

And cue Mormon Nailer sending me more abusive PMs like he did a couple months ago. Blah blah blah.

You write long posts because you havent a clue what you are trying to say.

The only one being abusive here is you. I never called anyone a "cunt". I never compared anyoes country to Nazi germany.

But I suppose it would impinge on you sense of victimhood to see that.

I never sent you any abusive PM's either. I sent you 1 PM ever and It is below. there isnothing remotely abusive about it and you can apologise for suggesting so whenever you feel inclined.

Sorry if I offended you and I certainly didn't mean to. I won't contact you again if that what you want but I really feel I have to answer some of your points below and we can leave it at that then.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jane

But you know what? A woman or a girl should be free to go to Oxygen and wear a bra and hotpants and STILL NOT BE RAPED. RAPE IS NEVER OKAY AND NO ONE IS EVER ASKING FOR IT.


Yes she should wear what she wants. However if in the circumstances we are discussing the parent allowed it the parent would be irresponsible because however much the parent agreed with the sentiment his/her daughter should be able to dress as she like the reality is different and the parent must protect the dughter.

It is not that the daugher is "asking for it" it is that the likeleyhood of her coming to harm is increased.

That is a very different thing.

Sometime we choose to limit our freedoms for our own protecion. This doesnot meant that the daughter does not have the right to wear what she likes of course she does.

For exambe people regulary censor what that say to avoid getting a thump. Does that justify violence? Does it negate the right to free expression?

What you are saying is that women who dress a certain way are actually asking for it.

I most certainly did not say that.

Regards,

Richard.

I have no more time to waste on you.