Anarchism (1 Viewer)

[W.]

genuinely grown out of crimethinc.

The arguements me and shorty are making are the complete inversion of the crimethinc arguements. We are talking about how everybody has to work and a critique of labour based around the proletariat negating itself. Crimethinc encourage an individualist drop-out culture. If you can't see the difference...

 

[the strange guy]

Not at all. Owning the means of production and living from extracting surplus value from workers would make me part of the bourgeoisie or depending on the situation the petty-bourgeoisie. I dont do this. Most labour these days is abstract, do a quick search for 'creative class' or 'immaterial labour' if you want to find out about it.

I think I'd prefer to hang out with Star Trek and X-Files nerds who throw episode names and quotes at each other to prove a point than politico-nerds who namedrop concepts.

 

[W.]

I think I'd prefer to hang out with Star Trek and X-Files nerds who throw episode names and quotes at each other to prove a point than politico-nerds who namedrop concepts.

Retreating gracefully from the battlefield of ideas?

 

[nooleen]

The arguements me and shorty are making are the complete inversion of the crimethinc arguements. We are talking about how everybody has to work and a critique of labour based around the proletariat negating itself. Crimethinc encourage an individualist drop-out culture. If you can't see the difference...

if i can't see the difference, it's vaguely possible that i'm entirely uninterested in both. oh yeah...that'll be it.

 

[W.]

if i can't see the difference, it's vaguely possible that i'm entirely uninterested in both. oh yeah...that'll be it.

Yet here you are.

 

[nooleen]

here i am. slagging off stupid shit is a hobby of mine.

 

[Space]

I much prefer 'Work Community Politics War'

http://www.prole.info/introduction/intro_0.html

Nah not for me, I don't like being told I go to work then spend my free time either preparing for work or getting drunk to forget about work. There's more to life to than that and we don't need a revolution to discover what it is.

 

[Shorty]

yeah, and if he started mouthing off that i need to have a meaningless job to be qualified to comment on people who whinge about working boring jobs, i'd remind him of that thread too. however, cormy is one person who seems to have genuinely grown out of crimethinc.
i work at what i'm into - geology. it doesn't come with a ready-made self-pity matrix for feeling wretched and oppressed, but i like it. i'd rather be writing articles about my work than about how much i hate my work. radical, eh?

That's not the point of the argument though. That's a problem that I find I have (or have had?) and a lot of other people have. Associating working class with shitty menial backbreaking jobs or industrial and manufacturing jobs or a certain accent or a certain cultural stereotype. The piece isn't about certain jobs or self pity, about being wretched and "oppressed", it's about trying to find the commonalities for all those people who have to work to get by. It's about being cut off, it's about when you(one) has to sell their labour to get by, to go to a place you don't choose, for an amount of time you don't choose and with people you don't choose. Jesus even the office can point that out, I don't need to read prole.info to get that. It's just them attempting to explain things and place it within a certain framework. Tag: British sitcom > wanky anarchist texts

Even in academia you're going to soon realise it's a case of "publish or be damned" and the other means you will have to undertake in order to make money. Most of my lecturers don't think their jobs are that great though I'm sure they "enjoy" them. What about those you're working with and have met?

 

[nooleen]

That's not the point of the argument though. That's a problem that I find I have (or have had?) and a lot of other people have. Associating working class with shitty menial backbreaking jobs or industrial and manufacturing jobs or a certain accent or a certain cultural stereotype. The piece isn't about certain jobs or self pity, about being wretched and "oppressed", it's about trying to find the commonalities for all those people who have to work to get by. It's about being cut off, it's about when you(one) has to sell their labour to get by, to go to a place you don't choose, for an amount of time you don't choose and with people you don't choose. Jesus even the office can point that out, I don't need to read prole.info to get that. It's just them attempting to explain things and place it within a certain framework. Tag: British sitcom > wanky anarchist texts

Even in academia you're going to soon realise it's a case of "publish or be damned" and the other means you will have to undertake in order to make money. Most of my lecturers don't think their jobs are that great though I'm sure they "enjoy" them. What about those you're working with and have met?

i'm not talking about the article, i'm talking about weeler's response. and thanks for explaining academia to me, by the way. i had no idea of the effort or politics involved.

 

[Corm]

Thats the point of the piece, abolition of alienated labour. That is the starting point of the critique of capitalism.

To be fair, of the various jobs I've had, the three most satisfying and non-boring were in worker-managed places. One of which was a restaurant in Christiania in Denmark, the fact of its being there allowing for a much more easy-going workplace and sense of camraderie (and lots of joint-smoking and drinking on the job, which still managed to be a successful, popular and well-regarded restaurant). Another one of which was in a libertrian high-school run on anarchist principles and where we had a high degree of autonomy & self-management. The other one was in a nightclub which was run by the employees, and which wasn't very successful in terms of making a profit, but was popular and successful and a nice place to work...and which involved even more smoking, on-job drinking and liberal attitudes to drugs in general. The most satisfying is of course working freelance and in my own hours, but it's also the least high paying and the hardest in terms of hours and pressure.

 

[Shorty]

and thanks for explaining academia to me, by the way. i had no idea of the effort or politics involved.

I didn't attempt to do that, I'm sorry if it came across as that. There's no need to be so cantankerous. Apologies again.

 

[Corm]

But the point is that all labour is alienated as we have no control over what we produce. Even if you find a job you like you're still producing a surplus value and never receive the full value of your efforts.

The notion that you can simply just work the job you want is bourgeois nonsense anyway, most people end up in careers which have no connection to their actual aspirations and even more are bound by social circumstances from ever being able to work in anything other than menial jobs.

Dunno about that. I'm pretty happy with the job I have, and have a very high degree of control over what I write about and how I write it.

 

[the strange guy]

Retreating gracefully from the battlefield of ideas?

Shaking my head in disbelief and doing that kind of half laugh/half snort to myself.

Politico-Nerd Protip: Namedropping authors, thinkers, books, articles and concepts only highlights your rabid excitement to be correct while attempting to project the appearance of an informed and well-read brainbox. If you understand a concept completely and utterly, inside and out - then you can summarise it in only twice the time it takes to tell someone to 'look it up'.

 

[Shorty]

Dunno about that. I'm pretty happy with the job I have, and have a very high degree of control over what I write about and how I write it.

Funnily enough with all this, you're actually similar enough to W. in that you're studying, living at home and working a bit on the side as well. Those circumstances alone though.

 

[Corm]

Same goes for you boss...though you're not workin?

 

[Shorty]

Politico-Nerd Protip: Namedropping authors, thinkers, books, articles and concepts only highlights your rabid excitement to be correct while attempting to project the appearance of an informed and well-read brainbox. If you understand a concept completely and utterly, inside and out - then you can summarise it in only twice the time it takes to tell someone to 'look it up'.

There's an element of truth to that, but in other cases an overly simplified explanation can be counterproductive. Seemingly true short sayings and pearls of wisdom may appear so on first inspection but don't always hold up, there's gray areas. Your protip may come across as a tautology, but may also contain prejudices, gray areas and some elements of relativism or not. Ooh irony and contradiction, I just can't get enough. I see where you're coming from though.

 

[Shorty]

Same goes for you boss...though you're not workin?

 

[nooleen]

I didn't attempt to do that, I'm sorry if it came across as that. There's no need to be so cantankerous. Apologies again.

cheers short stuff. there's a peanut-butter-chocolate-chip cookie in it for you for not being a wanker about it then. wankankerous, perhaps.

 

[the strange guy]

I know what you're trying to say, Shorty, buh, buh, buh...

When you're with your like-minded mates obviously it makes sense to have long, drawn out explanations of what it is you're trying to say. If you couldn't, then they're not very good mates!

In all other circumstances you've got to bear in mind that you're probably either boring them or trying to show how rapid (insert political ideology) is.

If you can't explain a concept that is related to a topic you both understand (ie working in a boring job, bosses are cunts, what can we do to change this, etc.) in a short and snappy way then you don't understand it fully.

Nearly every concept in the world, no matter how obscure, can be explained in three sentences by an expert. This is a fact I just made up, but I'd be surprised if it's completely wrong. .|..|

Namedropping is a great technique to end the discussion in an 'I'm right, you're wrong, read this then come back to me'. It's hard not to see that as snobbery.

 

[Corm]

Namedropping is a great technique to end the discussion in an 'I'm right, you're wrong, read this then come back to me'. It's hard not to see that as snobbery.

Agreed. Last refuge of an academic mind out of its depth and trying to stay afloat.