▒▒▒▒▒memories▒▒▒▒▒ (1 Viewer)

[billygannon]

yeah, but then people would start to resent them for the usual mundane reasons. which leads me to my next question. are politics and hierarchical structures (esp. where men are involved) not just unavoidable but actually necessary to get the job done?

I think that politics and hierarchy are in every human relationship.

But I think there should have been one or more people in charge. Things work when you have a group of people who make definite decisions. The free and easy collective is a nice idea - and can work - but it requires everyone to read from the same hymn sheet: which rarely happens.

It could come up again. I've always thought it'd be great to have a really good Dublin-based label - something like Chemical Underground or Factory or something like that. And there's no reason why it shouldn't happen.

 

[Ex-User (250)]

bill - what do you think those labels did differently to what TYM did? what were the big bones of contention that stopped TYM from doing what it started out to do? i appreciate you already said that it needed a leader... but if there had been one in place, say for arguments sake that it had been you... what would you have done that conflicted with other people's opinions of what should have been done?

maybe it's possible the bands in dublin just weren't good enough to get noticed by the people that count?

 

[billygannon]

Thing is, there are of bands from Dublin that are being noticed. Not a

I think it'd be cool if a few labels from Dublin got together and put together their resources, contacts and cash and sorted out some decent distribution.

They probably will - or maybe they won't.

 

[chickenham]

The market for that kind of music is too small here to allow middleman types to go pro.

As regards the collective thing: 'too many chiefs and not enough indians'

 

[snakybus]

me um heap big greenhorn

 

[Ex-User (250)]

The market for that kind of music is too small here to allow middleman types to go pro.

As regards the collective thing: 'too many chiefs and not enough indians'

in full agreement with first statement. it's what eventually *helped* me to stop doing the promoting thing. i still think there's some untapped veins though. colleges etc. always had problems getting posters hung on campus. that and stupid ents officers who went on to 'lose it' and throw their mobile phones in the liffey out of pure frustration. imagine presenting live from one of ireland's major festivals... you're on the TV and there's a noticeable contingent of people wearing "XXX is a wanker" t-shirts jumping up and down behind you. (note to self - don't ever expose yourself in this way, stick with the internet... you can always 'log off'.)

there's things like the event guide and hotpress. those few lucky enough to get featured - it probably only happened once or twice without any real promotion from the publications... as if they said to themselves "this is something we may miss out on... let's pretend hold hands and see what happens."

on your second point about collectives... can you explain it? i don't get it.

 

[billygannon]

Ah! Something I remember from my Ballroom days... students are useless if you want to promote indie music. They never have any money.

What you want is guys in their early to mid-20s who have just started to earn a decent salary and want to feel that they're still cutting edge.

 

[Ex-User (250)]

my 2 cents on all of this is that people on the outskirts of something like this - they need to percieve solidarity to take real notice. and self-sufficiency. like disagreeing in principle with certain policies practiced and then helping the perpetuators of said policies to make gains off your back. i think this is what gave things like ladyfest the force and momentum it gathered. people did look on in awe - i wasn't even here but i sensed it. too many people with different agendas, someone's always willing to sneak out the back for a fag with whoever if they give their special knock. i appreciate the principles can waver when bread and butter is a basic requirement. but surely that's what intervention beef was originally intended for? i'm talking shite now, sorry.

 

[Ex-User (250)]

Ah! Something I remember from my Ballroom days... students are useless if you want to promote indie music. They never have any money.

What you want is guys in their early to mid-20s who have just started to earn a decent salary and want to feel that they're still cutting edge.

surely that's what the globe is for?

 

[MDR]

It's a pity the distribution thing didn't work out, but no-one really had the time or money to make that realistic.
But it got people working together and supporting eachother - maybe not forever, but for some time at least.
.

The problem wasn't distribution. I did the distro in Dublin and the stuff just didn't sell. If people can't sell CDs in their own back yard they're not going to sell them in other cities.

The stall was a great idea, but was a real burden for the people running it.

Maybe we should have switched off the 'new idea generator' and just concentrated on doing a few simple things well, like getting on radio and getting into press.

In my experience, I'm not sure that bands really wanted to be work collectively. A collective can work if it enhances co-operation that already exists, but I don't think it can generate a co-operative spirit. There are always free riders. That's said, it was a great way to meet other people who wanted to do the same things (albeit separately) and i got loads of helpful free advice from people i hardly knew. I found 'the scene' very supportive, rather than cliquey.

Anyway, who cares what i think.

 

[coast to coast]

would it help if a phantom/xfm type resource that would reliably play this kind of music were available now? you gotta think so - - -

its interesting that ro said that the cds just don't sell that much...i think the problem remains that ireland is just very very small.

 

[Ex-User (250)]

mumblin'. very valid point on the enhancement of cooperation that already exists. i think everyone wanted similar things... to get distribution and sell records and make millions. but at that time, a moxy load of new bands, artists and labeal had pretty much just hit 'the scene' - villian records being one of them. and i think everyone just thought it might be an idea to work together without thinking about whether mike stevens was a nice guy or not. turns out he is. but really what was everyone's real ambition? to make a success of the collective or to make a success of their own individual concerns while seeming to work from within a collective...

when all's said and done, i fall back on what c'ham just said. and i don't necessarily agree with the "if you can't sell cds here, you won't sell them abroad." germany is the biggest consumer of dameien frost material on earth. we've never played there. this place is too small to make art pay.

 

[billygannon]

surely that's what the globe is for?

That's what going off to South East Asia and Australia is for.

 

[Ex-User (250)]

That's what going off to South East Asia and Australia is for.

australia's never interested me at all. i wouldn't mind touring there though. pity bali's off the cards for a while. perry farrell made me have the most amazing dreams about that place. anyway, mali is the new bali.

 

[Ex-User (250)]

nice thread billy. in colclusion, "at least we tried." i don't claim to be one of 'we' by the way. i took part in the initial incitement... then petered off like some kind of peter ustinov.

 

[billygannon]

I'm thinking of changing my name to Bali Gannon. Just for a laugh. We all need a laugh. Especially after what happened in Bali.

I'd like to put together a Pop Life compilation of Irish stuff over the last few years. Just need to sort out stuff here.

But what I found funny was what was in place of the Things You're Missing site. Looks like the Tycho Brahe web-site.

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

my 2 cents on all of this... i'm talking shite now, sorry.

Was the point of that post that to gather real tangible support, a collective / label / movement / whatever would have to have serious underlying principles that bands, punters and (journos?) admired, that they felt it was worth their support?

 

[Ex-User (250)]

Was the point of that post that to gather real tangible support, a collective / label / movement / whatever would have to have serious underlying principles that bands, punters and (journos?) admired, that they felt it was worth their support?

pretty much, yeah. but not in a 10 commandments way, more in a dischord or touch and go ethos kind of way. like finding a venue who would treat bands fairly and would acknowledge that they would have no custom only for the band. and then everyone playing there and not playing in the crap venues. like taking a very definite and unwavering stance - tackling one of the biggest causes of general unrest head-on. but to make this kind of thing happen, once the couple of bands who were going to get 'big' got 'big' (dublin standards), they'd still only play at this venue or would force another venue to follow suit if that venue wanted to have them play there. that would then make the situation better for everyone. people can change the world, they just need to be smart about how they do it. like on what level does it make sense for a venue to indirectly dictate ticket prices because of how much they charge for a venue? without the music, the venue would go out of business, it's that simple. can you imagine how much profit somewhere like the village makes on drink sales alone?

 

[Donkey OJ]

i know nothing about the specifics of what you guys have been talking about. the intent sounds admirable tho. any collective will live and die by the quality of what it produces. its not so much about the co-operation as the product imho. what was the intended product of the collective - better conditions and resources for bands or good quality entertainment for punters? re dischord - i've yet to attend a bad dischord gig or buy a shit dischord release. quality first, change the world later. having said that theres no unified rule for world domination. sometimes its just luck - the right people around you at the right time. oh, and collectives should either have a no ego policy or a leader with very good man management skills. otherwise shit unravels regardless.

 

[taubstumm]

some points

- 'things you're missing', mark 2, if it ever happens, should be run like ladyfest - a small, defined, group of people with a lot of mutual understanding of basic ideas and a lot of mutual trust. if it can't work like that it probably won't work at all. i mo thuaraim.

- distro should be a whole seperate thing - there is a job there for someone, i mean a real pay-your-bills job. i looked into it a few months ago - had meetings with the f.m.c., talked to rhona and a few others, but i'm not going to be able to do it in the next couple of years. someday. maybe. if anyone wants my little folder of pieces of paper about it, pm me.

- distribution vs. touring is a chicken and egg - can't get distro so don't tour, don't tour so can't get distro - play more gigs, people. in europe. quit yer jobs.

- why are you all talking in the past tense? there's more stuff going on now than ever. dublin has some pretty cool stuff going on.

- what hag said re: dischord/t&g-style ethos and venues.