Government funding (1 Viewer)

Cryptid · Jan 19, 2009

yesboyicecream said:
Government funding for sport has, in a lot of areas, provided access to sport & physical activity to people from disadvantaged areas. That's a good thing.

Yes, but could the money have been better spent by investing in a wider range of activity that includes music?

yesboyicecream said:
Go and look at the league tables for the North Dublin Schoolboys League or the Dublin District Schoolboys League (football), (look at the tables for any adult league either) and see if you can't spot the number of teams from disadvantaged areas. Or GAA. (Not the same for Rugby, obviously).

You'd have to look at the composition of those teams, but point taken. Although an area of over one million people having 100 or so football teams, each with 15 players, from disadvantaged areas doesn't indicate an unqualified success.

yesboyicecream said:
While people from lower socio-economic backgrounds are less likely to participate in sport regularly than people from higher socio-economic backgrounds generally, the disparity when it comes to arts attendance or active participation is much, much worse.

That's a self propagating argument. If the state turns it's back on something and encourages something else, how can you expect the first thing to prosper among the people who would benefit from it?

yesboyicecream said:
So, ideally, the solution would be to keep up funding for sport because it does work but also to provide a level of or structure for funding for the arts which promotes greater participation rather than simply exacerbates existing inequalities.

It shouldn't be an either/or situation and the ultimate goal of funding, which it is for sport, should be to increase participation.

Actually, the real problem is government funding for music education at primary and post-primary level.

I might have missed about three posts that said all this while I was typing it and I could probably keep typing for another hour but if you go to the Arts Council's website and the Irish Sports Council's website, you can compare and contrast the various statistics and research on participation.

MUSIC AND SPORT FOR EVERYONE!

I do agree with the last bit there. Ok, that was my last post on the topic. I've done f-all work this afternoon.

Unicron · Jan 19, 2009

scutter said:
And sport can be elitest. Rugby for example.

Whatever about that being true for Dublin and Belfast it's not the case elsewhere. No need to trot out he limerick example but clubs down the country are generally desperate and grateful for anyone to get involved.

People go on about Rugby but anyone can go to a club and join. No one ever mentions Tennis clubs where you have to be elected into in order to be able to play.

Moods For Mallards · Jan 19, 2009

Unicron said:
Whatever about that being true for Dublin and Belfast it's not the case elsewhere. No need to trot out he limerick example but clubs down the country are generally desperate and grateful for anyone to get involved.

People go on about Rugby but anyone can go to a club and join. No one ever mentions Tennis clubs where you have to be elected into in order to be able to play.

You can probably add Cork to the 'elitist rugby cities' list. Those bollixes get away with murder, rep wise.

BonsaiSuperstar · Jan 19, 2009

Unicron said:
Whatever about that being true for Dublin and Belfast it's not the case elsewhere. No need to trot out he limerick example but clubs down the country are generally desperate and grateful for anyone to get involved.

People go on about Rugby but anyone can go to a club and join. No one ever mentions Tennis clubs where you have to be elected into in order to be able to play.

you could apply your whole post to Tennis clubs as well. It's only a small number of elite clubs where you have election. i have played in both types of clubs, elite and non-elite.
other than Dublin you have about 1-3 club in Cork, 1-2 in Waterford, 1 in Limerick and possibly 1 in Galway. you can pretty much join any club you want other than them. they are crying out for members

EDIT: There is also 1 other Elite club i can think of in Tipperary Town - but Tipp town also has 2 other clubs for the lay tennis player. guess which club produced all the good players!

musicnetwork · Jan 19, 2009

. I'm also against aosdana and a lot of existing funding for the arts - why does the middle class audience for classical music and theatre get a subsidy for their entertainment, while the working classes who race pigeons or go to the cineplex get nothing. (I'm exaggerating but you get my point.)

First off... read this

http://www.create-ireland.ie/professional-development/home-process-and-partnership-rhona-byrne.html

musicnetwork · Jan 19, 2009

then when you're done ....read this

http://www.musicnetwork.ie/myc/cms/pages/development/recording.php

musicnetwork · Jan 19, 2009

This may also be of interest

http://www.artscouncil.ie/en/news/news.aspx?article=d673d0f7-6d98-402e-890d-28caab637a8b

Bold Lump · Jan 19, 2009

musicnetwork said:
This may also be of interest

http://www.artscouncil.ie/en/news/ne...d-28caab637a8b

Stream Two Awardees- Individual High-Value Instruments

Name of Applicant Amount (€)
Sarah Sexton 40,000

Is that what a violin costs, or do i have the wrong Sarah Sexton?

egg_ · Jan 19, 2009

voidoid said:
Is that what a violin costs, or do i have the wrong Sarah Sexton?

Real high-class instruments, classical OR popular, can cost that and more - I guess the rationale is the people who buy them are actually making quite a lot of money and can therefore afford it. It's a bit crazy to think though that governments around the world are pushing up the values of instruments like Stradivariuses (or possibly even creating the market for them) by buying them for their citizens who are promising players

nlgbbbblth · Jan 19, 2009

scutter said:
There are many high-profile cases of travellers involved in GAA clubs around the country, and more especially in Dublin (where a group of travellers actually set up their own GAA club which has been in existence for as long as I can recall). There are traveller children involved in my GAA club, and thats a club in a reasonably well-to-do leafy suburb. So I think that assertion was incorrect.

Again, in my experience.

Quite a few travellers in the local GAA club where I grew up - New Ross. Went to see a junior hurling game a couple of months ago and five of them lined out - guys I would have played with years ago. Took no prisoners.

nlgbbbblth · Jan 19, 2009

Unicron said:
Whatever about that being true for Dublin and Belfast it's not the case elsewhere. No need to trot out he limerick example but clubs down the country are generally desperate and grateful for anyone to get involved.

People go on about Rugby but anyone can go to a club and join. No one ever mentions Tennis clubs where you have to be elected into in order to be able to play.

Joining my local tennis club when I was a teenager consisted of two interviews - and the woman doing the talking was a mate's older sister. Not easy.

Often wonder about the Limerick rugby make-up. Can't see those Dundon-McCarthy lads getting involved.

MDR · Jan 21, 2009

musicnetwork said:
then when you're done ....read this

http://www.musicnetwork.ie/myc/cms/pages/development/recording.php

Thanks - I wasn't aware of that.

musicnetwork · Jan 21, 2009

MDR said:
Thanks - I wasn't aware of that.

No worries, we have an industry newsletter that highlights upcoming opportunities for musicians, including grants etc, you can sign up here (the link is under information) http://www.musicnetwork.ie/myc/cms/pages/development/musicians.php

Also Culture Ireland, the government organisation for promoting Irish culture overseas is worth checking out, their next grant application deadline is the 15th of Feb.
http://www.cultureireland.gov.ie/grants/index.html

This is a link to the Arts Council page which lists all the funding availible to musicians
http://www.artscouncil.ie/en/artists_awards.aspx

First Music Contact is another good resource
http://www.firstmusiccontact.com
(this is resource pretty much dedicated to new Irish rock and pop acts)

For jazz, world and related music there's IMC, they have grants for touring etc.
http://www.improvisedmusic.ie/backstage/

There's the Contemporary Music Centre for contemporary composers
http://www.cmc.ie/opportunities/index.html

Also worth making contact with are county councils as most of them have a dedicated arts officer (if not all at this stage) who is there to promote the growth of arts (including) in their catchment area through various means.

The following is the Dublin County Council Arts Funding Application page:
http://www.dublincity.ie/RecreationandCulture/ArtsandFacilities/ArtsFunding/Pages/ArtsFunding.aspx

Each funding opportunity or musician resource will have its own specific criteria which must be filled before availing of it. Musicians who gain the majority of their income through performance, recording or sometimes other music-related activities (e.g. teaching or community outreach work) and are committed to a full-time career in music are, in my personal experience, more likely to apply to these things and therefore more likely to receive support.

If you want information on the music scene in Ireland in general you can always call us here at Music Network: 01 671 9429 and ask for Aisling Roche or Aoife, or you can look up the Irish Music Handbook Online: http://www.musicnetwork.ie/myc/cms/pages/information/index.php

Jerry Twig · Jan 21, 2009

I can see how it would be nice to get a hand out from the government to record your album in New York (like that fella said on the video - what an awful example to use by the way!) but ultimately if a band can make it on its own without state support its better off. The classical music scene is state sponsored because it is essentially (sounding like a 12 year old) 'establishment' music that would die on its arse in a week without tax payer support.
Who wants a co-opted, compromised DIY punk scene?
It's a gross generalisation I know but you get the point.

musicnetwork · Jan 21, 2009

Furious Styles said:
I can see how it would be nice to get a hand out from the government to record your album in New York (like that fella said on the video - what an awful example to use by the way!) but ultimately if a band can make it on its own without state support its better off. The classical music scene is state sponsored because it is essentially (sounding like a 12 year old) 'establishment' music that would die on its arse in a week without tax payer support.
Who wants a co-opted, compromised DIY punk scene?
It's a gross generalisation I know but you get the point.

Just so I'm clear on this, you're against funding for any art forms which aren't profit making, you reckon we should get rid of funding which allows more creative freedom and helps lessen an artist's dependence on market demands. Do you honestly believe the best music, the only worthwhile music, is music which can turn a profit and we're better off without the rest? Seriously??

Marketing is a massive part of the music industry (as it is with most industries) and if a record label or agency elects to get behind a band there is a good chance they'll do well and become a financial success. It's important to remember that quite often the decision of whether or not a band will be signed is based on their image, the demographic they appeal to, how they fit into current pop culture trends as well as their music (e.g. James Blunt). There's nothing wrong with this as far as I'm concerned, this just how music as a business works and more power to them if a band can get some serious marketing muscle behind them to get their music out there. However, I would hate to live in a world where only music which makes the ring tone download top ten survives where only albums that sell out in Tescos as fast a Harry Potter books are considered worthy of existence.

Some of the most incredible music I have ever heard was by artists I had known little about before seeing them in venues with a capacity of less than 100 (not necessarily full either), promoted by organisations who never could have afforded to bring artists in from other countries or pay Irish artists a decent fee if it weren't for Arts Council funding. I don't just mean that there's some ok stuff out there if you take a chance once in a while, I mean hand on heart, some of the most amazing and innovative musicians alive today have played in this country's arts centres and local venues for a fairly reasonable ticket price over years.

egg_ · Jan 21, 2009

musicnetwork said:
Do you honestly believe the best music, the only worthwhile music, is music which can turn a profit and we're better off without the rest? Seriously??

Hold you horses there dude, I would say nobody here believes that. The whole focus of thumped is people making music with little regard to its commercial viability, and most of us have this in common with you:

Some of the most incredible music I have ever heard was by artists I had known little about before seeing them in venues with a capacity of less than 100 (not necessarily full either)

Many of us would be kind of anti-establishment, that's really what the comment you replied to is all about

egg_ · Jan 21, 2009

But here, what I'm really wondering now is this - can I get you to fund my band's next album? We're uncommercial in the sense that we're unsuccessful, and likely to stay that way. Does that correspond to the definition of "non-commercial" in the context of your recording fund? Or does the fact that what we do could be loosely classified as "rock music" rule us out?

musicnetwork · Jan 21, 2009

egg_ said:
But here, what I'm really wondering now is this - can I get you to fund my band's next album? We're uncommercial in the sense that we're unsuccessful, and likely to stay that way. Does that correspond to the definition of "non-commercial" in the context of your recording fund? Or does the fact that what we do could be loosely classified as "rock music" rule us out?

You can certainly get a grant to go towards the recording of an album if your....

application is successful, and you could also apply for funding through the performance and touring award scheme as well which helps cover the costs associated with a tour thus making you or your band a more attractive prospect for regional promoters. The awardees and amounts are discussed and decided on by a panel made up of professionals working in various areas of music in Ireland.

We also run a course called Making Overtures (http://www.musicnetwork.ie/myc/cms/pages/development/contdev.php)
provides training for musicians in all genres in non-musical facets of a professional musician’s career including issues of self-promotion and self-management. It's a week long course and the fee last year was €150 all in (tutorials, related materials and lunch each day). This price might go up in 2009 due to cut backs but hopefully not by too much.

The best thing to do is sign up to our monthly industry newsletter and probably the arts council newsletter as well so that you have plenty of notice of up-coming deadlines and that.

musicnetwork · Jan 21, 2009

some of that got cut off for some reason....the first line should be ....
You can certainly get a grant to go towards the recording of an album if your....

musicnetwork · Jan 21, 2009

btw who or what is the "establishment"?

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