Hellworld Thread (1 Viewer)

[egg_]

I highly doubt you'd want your kids to take blockers even if they had no side effects - would you?
Yes or No?
So it isn't solely based on that.

My kids were both pretty girly and comfortable in their own skins when they were little, if at age 12 they'd out of the blue told me they wanted puberty blockers it'd have been wildly out of character. So yes - side effects or no I would have been very wary. If they'd always wanted to be boys that'd be a different story I guess, but ... well, these are real people, not abstract ideas, it's hard to imagine them being different to how they are

 

[egg_]

Relevant:

Children to stop getting puberty blockers at gender identity clinics, says NHS England

Confirmation comes after public consultation and decision to close Gender Identity Development Service in London

www.theguardian.com

 

[JohnnyRaz]

My kids were both pretty girly and comfortable in their own skins when they were little, if at age 12 they'd out of the blue told me they wanted puberty blockers it'd have been wildly out of character. So yes - side effects or no I would have been very wary. If they'd always wanted to be boys that'd be a different story I guess, but ... well, these are real people, not abstract ideas, it's hard to imagine them being different to how they are

Not that this is any sort of evidence or argument one way or another - I've only known two people as a child who consistently expressed the desire to be a different gender. One of those has/is transitioning, the other stayed with their birth gender (if that's the correct terminology)...

 

[ann post]

Relevant:

Children to stop getting puberty blockers at gender identity clinics, says NHS England

Confirmation comes after public consultation and decision to close Gender Identity Development Service in London

www.theguardian.com

Indeed

Hellworld Thread

i'm sure it's great but i'll never get past the first instance of audience clapping/hooting over some banal joke

thumped.com

 

[David Kronenbourg]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[pete]

 

[nuke terrorist]

My kids were both pretty girly and comfortable in their own skins when they were little, if at age 12 they'd out of the blue told me they wanted puberty blockers it'd have been wildly out of character. So yes - side effects or no I would have been very wary. If they'd always wanted to be boys that'd be a different story I guess, but ... well, these are real people, not abstract ideas, it's hard to imagine them being different to how they are

Fair enough egg.

Very hard decision for someone of 12 y.o. age to make but this NHS blanket ban on blockers policy will badly let down some kids.
e.g. if a trans woman athlete wanted to compete as her chosen gender, in some sports she will only be allowed if she hasn't gone through male puberty.

I couldn't give a shit about Facebook or Twitter and don't follow debates there - since that been mentioned in relation to this.

My 11 y.o. nephew who I see most days doesn't have his own phone.

My 15 y.o. nephew had a boy who identified as a female from a young age in his rural primary school class. The kid was extremely intelligent and knowledgeable on the issue.
I probably met them at birthday parties but certainly never noticed them.
Must ask how they are getting on...

 

[ann post]

I'm wondering has someone answered this question at length somewhere online already but how do you decide what type of adult you want to be by delaying becoming any type of adult at all?

 

[magicbastarder]

i think the answer to that is straightforward - the logic would be that it's not to help you decide who you want to be, but to prevent you from becoming who you don't (or may not) want to be?

 

[ann post]

i think the answer to that is straightforward - the logic would be that it's not to help you decide who you want to be, but to prevent you from becoming who you don't (or may not) want to be?

I was trying to read the NHS document since rather than the guardian's rehash of it.
It kinda says that the blockers weren't really alleviating any of the psychological/disphoria in their monitoring, so they've moved to a psychological support model instead.

So your answer is correct in the sense that was what they were prescribing them for, but also, they found out it didn't work.

Sorry for asking a question but then actually doing the research i shoulda in the first place.

and in case anyone is curious

NHS England » Clinical policy: puberty suppressing hormones

www.england.nhs.uk

 

[nuke terrorist]

I was trying to read the NHS document since rather than the guardian's rehash of it.
It kinda says that the blockers weren't really alleviating any of the psychological/disphoria in their monitoring, so they've moved to a psychological support model instead.

So your answer is correct in the sense that was what they were prescribing them for, but also, they found out it didn't work.

Sorry for asking a question but then actually doing the research i shoulda in the first place.

and in case anyone is curious

NHS England » Clinical policy: puberty suppressing hormones

www.england.nhs.uk

I spent hours reading the above NHS links about the decision to no longer offer puberty blockers.
So I will have some kind say before I drop this.

I first read the Tonic Independent Consultation Analysis Report.

You can almost skip over the public consultation part. It is simple stats analysis of themes that came up in what they've classified as Group A (pro blockers /pro trans concerns) and Group B the much smaller group of anti blocker trans sceptics.

Only a minority of stakeholders were the people who count IMO:
The kids and adults with lived experience and the medical experts.

From page 51 of Tonic's report there is 27 pages of sources listed with synopses of each studies findings.
I later found the synopses seem to be intros written by the researchers who wrote them.

There are at least 4 research studies mentioned dealing solely with bone density.
Others physical effects mentioned in relation to blockers (much less often) are physical growth development, weight gain etc.

Cognitive issues, body image, mood side effects, are among other study subjects.

Two studies were mentioned on the effects of blockers in adolescent sheep (WTF?!) and another on mice.

Trans women and trans men are studied separately. Trans women are more effected by bone density and physical issues than trans men.

According to those synopses, psychological effects range from neutral to mostly positive and having a huge effect of those suffering deep depression and for those who are suicidal it seems to be a necessary option.

Very few trans folks regretted their decision to use blockers most had big life improvements.
Kids overwhelmingly completed the blocker treatment and didn't regret it.
Again this is just their own synopses.

If risk of changing your mind was the only problem there would be no issue AFAICS.

I found full research study texts nearly impossible to find online.

Next I read/struggled through the whole 131 page NHS full decision as best I could (a large amount of which is citations).

THIS WAS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT AFFAIR:

I THINK one person who chaired the 8 person NHS panel was named in one document (I forget which) but the other members who made the decision aren't named and we aren't told their credentials.

This was the antithesis of case by case.

They used a measurement of gender
dysphoria called:
UTRECHT GENDER DYSPHORIA SCALE.

A bulletin point data analysis scale called NEWCASTLE OTTAWA TOOL FOR COHORT STUDIES was used.
- This has IMO a very high threshold which none of the studies were ever going to meet.

Also PICO was another widely used term in the analysis:
-POPULATION and INDICATION
- COMPARATOR
- OUTCOMES.

The DISCUSSION section 40 is written in direct language and these studies are just not considered acceptable evidence:
Page 98 has a section called Quality Appraisal.

The numbers of people studied wasn't enough, lack of follow up studies, strict criteria not met including on 'bias' and 'certainty', people lost contact with studies etc. etc.

Many more studies were rejected completely as being more substandard and not worth referencing.

Reading all this was a learning curve for me.

If my conclusions are wrong please correct me. I am sure this kind of stuff is light reading in some of yer jobs.

EDIT:
Fixed typos and deleted broken links

 

[nuke terrorist]

The refugee tents have been cleared off Mount Street. Any idea what's happened to the folks there??

Probably be allowed back after Paddy's Day.

 

[nuke terrorist]

Cycling team manager Patrick Lefevre has finally been sanctioned for bigoted comments.

Patrick Lefevere must apologise or pay 20,000 CHF fine for comments ‘disparaging toward women’

UCI says the fine will be suspended if he issues a public statement of apology and does not commit another breach

www.cyclingnews.com

He has a history of this. Previous targets include comparing Sam Bennett to a woman going back to her domestic abuser partner, negatively comparing someone to the cyclist Frank Vandenbroucke (RIP) and now blaming Julian Alaphilippe lack of form on drinking and his partner Marion.
Marion Rousse was a respected former pro cyclist, French national champ and broadcaster before she was with Julian.
She's now the boss of women's Tour de France.
Marion doesn't drink alcohol either.

Can't think of another sport where Lefevere would have gotten away with this for so long.

 

[JohnnyRaz]

Tech firms poised to mass hire factcheckers before EU elections

Parliamentary elections thought vulnerable to fake news will test social media firms and bloc’s new DSA laws

www.theguardian.com

 

[JohnnyRaz]

Chechnya bans dance music that is either too fast or too slow

Ruling means music in Russian republic must ‘conform to Chechen mentality and sense of rhythm’

www.theguardian.com

 

[seanc]

What am I supposed to do with this? You may select up to 28 candidates. But not preferentially. What's the point then.

I'm a Union guy, but this is some bullshit right here*.

*Read in a gruff East Coast American accent.

 

[magicbastarder]

I hope you voted for the film artiste lady. Everyone loves artistes.

 

[seanc]

Not voted yet. There's a huge booklet to read with statements from every candidate.

In fairness, every one of them has put more effort into this than the local election People.

 

[pete]

What am I supposed to do with this? You may select up to 28 candidates. But not preferentially. What's the point then.

I'm a Union guy, but this is some bullshit right here*.

*Read in a gruff East Coast American accent.

no way about half of them are real names.

 

[pete]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies