Is the Irish Music Industry unethical/immoral to independent artists? (1 Viewer)

[washingcattle]

Don't be mistake it's not goodbye so much as fuck off.

 

[hermie]

I suppose someone from Portland isn't stuck only playing Portland and the immediate surrounding area though.

What's your point? The cachement area is the same size or less than Dublin. Yes they have wider opportunities for branching out but only if they succeed on a micro level first.

 

[MilanPan!c]

Don't be mistake it's not goodbye so much as fuck off.

Aren't you ignoring me? You're not doing a great job of it? (Though I expect you'll think you're morally obliged to be paid for it...)

 

[MilanPan!c]

What's your point? The cachement area is the same size or less than Dublin. Yes they have wider opportunities for branching out but only if they succeed on a micro level first.

Nope.

Many bands succeed outside of their local area first, and then their local area. That's assuming they can access any other area. That's why Portland's location is so different to say Witchita.

 

[washingcattle]

What's your point? The cachement area is the same size or less than Dublin. Yes they have wider opportunities for branching out but only if they succeed on a micro level first.

I think the point he's trying to make is that Portland has direct access to a prospective audience of over 200 million, and all you need is a van. Half the reason we have to look after our own is that the logistics of touring anywhere outside of Ireland involve so much travel at great expense.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Yeah, what he said. It's hard to Get in the Van Henry Rollins style when you only have about 6 places to go before you have to start factoring in boats and planes. That was my only point.

 

[nooleen]

can we work the garth issue into this somehow? the other thread is much more fun

 

[washingcattle]

Also once you factor in the boat you have to make your way across England which is so expensive that by the time you re-enter the eurozone you might as well pack up and go home. I've always said that irish bands should try to get off the island more but I guess you need a real viable network in places like France, Germany, Italy, Holland, to really pull it off. Most people simply won't have this. The handful of times we played in Germany it was a gig put on either by friends of ours or by promoters who our friends knew personally.

Like I said earlier it's all well and good saying "impress a promoter and get them to do some of the legwork" but that often equates to "find a unicorn and ride on it's back to the stars".

 

[hermie]

Yeah, what he said. It's hard to Get in the Van Henry Rollins style when you only have about 6 places to go before you have to start factoring in boats and planes. That was my only point.

Yeah well absolutely you're right on that. I've always been jealous of that kind of access as I'm sure are most people in bands in this country. But I fail to see how this excuses a culture of giving less if we are to take Dublin, let's say, as a microcosm. Am I wrong here in assuming we are comparing relative like with like at least to some extent?

 

[hermie]

Whelans is far from packed every night of every week. Far from it. I've stood in empty upstairs rooms many a night.

I know Whelans does pay to play. They are far from transparent about it and frequently do a shit job collecting money at the door. They also don't share proceeds from the bar. So.

And Ann Post did suggest shutting down venues that don't pay bands. That would include Whelans. When questioned about it directly, AP doubled down on that sentiment.

So it's not a strawman; you simply didn't do a good job of reading the thread.

Whelan's does well for itself. And it pays to play. It does nothing for your argument to continue mentioning it. Also you've taken up Ann Post's point completely wrong.

 

[washingcattle]

Yeah well absolutely you're right on that. I've always been jealous of that kind of access as I'm sure are most people in bands in this country. But I fail to see how this excuses a culture of giving less if we are to take Dublin, let's say, as a microcosm. Am I wrong here in assuming we are comparing relative like with like at least to some extent?

Sorry I don't understand that last part maybe it's dyslexia maybe you've broken my brain but I really want to know what you're trying to say.

 

[MilanPan!c]

Whelan's does well for itself. And it pays to play. It does nothing for your argument to continue mentioning it. Also you've taken up Ann Post's point completely wrong.

I haven't taken it wrong. You note AP came onto this and in no way denied that was what was meant. Close venues, unethical ones.

And Whelans sometimes pays to play, other times - many many many times - it does not.

I've played many many a gig there, including headlining up and downstairs and have rarely been paid. Not never, but rarely. My experience is not the outlier.

 

[washingcattle]

Also you've taken up Ann Post's point completely wrong.

Surely not !!!

 

[hermie]

Sorry I don't understand that last part maybe it's dyslexia maybe you've broken my brain but I really want to know what you're trying to say.

What I'm saying in a really really bad way is that surely there is some truth learned by comparing situations in different cities around the world to that of our own.

I'm not buying this little old isolated Ireland is so drastically different as to be incomparable.

What I mean by a microcosm is a city and it's cachement area without the broader context of it's geographical location.

 

[hermie]

I haven't taken it wrong. You note AP came onto this and in no way denied that was what was meant. Close venues, unethical ones.

And Whelans sometimes pays to play, other times - many many many times - it does not.

I've played many many a gig there, including headlining up and downstairs and have rarely been paid. Not never, but rarely. My experience is not the outlier.

Well maybe I've taken it up wrong then. I thought he was saying he would hypothetically prefer a fewer number of venues with fairer payment polices than a greater number who all pay nothing. Not that we should all get out the pitchforks and start shutting places down.

I guess I'm wrong again but if you were headlining downstairs I would have thought you book the venue yourself and take your chances? But they do pay to playin the upstairs venue which is commendable.

 

[Space]

Hermie nothing exists in a microcosm and you don't need to succeed in your base town first.

 

[Space]

I got paid every time I've played Whelan's. Decent crowds most of the times too.

 

[ann post]

I haven't taken it wrong. You note AP came onto this and in no way denied that was what was meant. Close venues, unethical ones.

 

[washingcattle]

I got paid every time I've played Whelan's. Decent crowds most of the times too.

Me too.

What I'm saying in a really really bad way is that surely there is some truth learned by comparing situations in different cities around the world to that of our own.

I'm not buying this little old isolated Ireland is so drastically different as to be incomparable.

What I mean by a microcosm is a city and it's cachement area without the broader context of it's geographical location.

Ah yes, Moose is right of course nothing exists in a microcosm....except.... Let's face it lads we live on an island at the most western point of a land mass which we have many things in common with and many huge differences from and we are separated from that land mass by a bigger island which has three separate nations on it each of which has many aspects of similarity and huge differences and then there's London which Dublin has next to nothing in common with.

In a sense Dublin is not so much a microcosm (if it could be of anything) but it is uniquely isolated. I think it's that sense of isolation which makes it what it is in a way. Dublin is not really Ireland in the the way that London is not really England. Cities like Cork, Galway or Belfast have far more in common (from what I've seen) with smaller european cities ( I mean that in the best possible way, i.e the pace of the city, the friendliness of the people and the sense of dare I say it a "community") Those places are also uniquely Irish but also similar to europe and parts of Britain.

Dublin on the other hand is a paradox. it's too small to be as violent and impersonal as it is and yet it's probably too big to have so many close knit creative communities (not just music might I add) I've traveled a lot but I've never been anywhere that had even a remote similarity to Dublin. It's like a city which doesn't so much have an identity crisis but it's identity is crisis. Everyone describes the Irish as laid back and friendly and yet while Dublin is this to many outsiders, to us, us Dubs in particular it seems a constant battle. I suppose this is one of the reasons we have threads and discussions like this one. We have to be at odds. Even if most of us can agree on an one ideal.

So yeah while you can draw parralels with other cities in terms of location and population but you could never say that Dublin is genuinely like anywhere else.

Don't believe me ? Check out the Garth Brooks thread.

 

[Cormcolash]

As for Portland, it's on the West coast of the US, a few hours drive from one of the largest media conflagrations in the world.

I really hope you're talking about Seattle or something, and aren't calling LA a few hours drive from Portland...