We Don't Want Your Record (2 Viewers)

Lili Marlene

-
Supporter
Contributor
Joined
Oct 14, 2002
Messages
31,897
Solutions
3
Location
?
If a band can't exist exist without money, then the band shouln't exist.

Some tough words from Bob Lefsetz - "If you’re poor, it’s your fault"


We Don’t Want Your Record
I don’t care that you made it.

I don’t care that your mother and girlfriend like it.

I don’t care that you funded it through Kickstarter.

Why does everybody think just because you did it I should be interested?

Parents are interested in their kids’ Little League games, but I don’t want to go. I loved playing ball, but even my parents didn’t show up. In other words, if you’re having fun recording, here’s to you! But don’t make me listen.

Even worse, you want me to spin it five or ten times in order to get it…

While you’re at it, why don’t I make you sit in a corner listening to Wayne Newton for four hours straight. Get back to me when you think that’s a good idea.

How did this happen? Is it the no one gets cut from the soccer team and everybody gets a trophy paradigm?

The reason you’re making no money in the music business is because you’re just not good enough.

There, I said it.

This doesn’t only apply to wannabes and never-made-its, but all the once successful who think since they hit the airwaves yesterday they’re entitled to attention today.

Come on, name the band that cut an album as good as their seventies work.

I love Led Zeppelin, but everything Jimmy Page has done since, from David Coverdale to the Black Crowes to teaming back up with Robert Plan, is worthy of checking out…if that.

And now we get to try before we buy.

Whether it be on YouTube or Spotify, we get our curiosity satiated, and after one listen, usually just a sampling, we move on.

Is this our fault? Do you want us to marry someone without dating them first?

Oh, the music industry complaints.

Studios went out of business.

So now we’re supposed to go back to a grand plus a day so the wannabes can’t record at home? Is that what you really want? A barrier to entry? Because that probably means you can’t play the game at all. You can’t record unless you’ve got a record deal or a rich parent. That’s the gatekeeper syndrome. Do you really want that to come back?

And record stores!

Yup, do you want to pay ten plus bucks to buy an album to get it home to find out it’s substandard and you want your money back but can’t get it? That’s the way it used to be, there was no sampling at any record store I ever went to. You broke the shrinkwrap, you owned it. Furthermore, there were great records that you never heard because you could not afford them, now everything’s available cheaply online to sample and you want to eviscerate this because all the wannabes and has-beens above are crying in their beer that they just can’t make the money they used to? Tell that to print shops! Kill the laser printer! Sue Adobe’s page layout software out of existence! And get HP to disable the copying function in every home printer while you’re at it.

We’ve got to want YOU!

And if we do, there’s plenty of money to be made.

But you don’t know this. Because nobody wants you. You keep shelling out dough to make it and get nothing in return and you think it’s the system, but really it’s your music, we don’t want it.

If your music is good, there’s a ton of money to be made. Not all of it on recorded music. Hell, do you know that prior to the mid-nineties most of the money was still in recordings? This is before Napster. Tour guarantees and ticket prices didn’t soar until Bob Sillerman rolled up the concert promoters. Why don’t we jet back to that era and insist that prices go down. Oh, you don’t want that. Hell, you just want to raise prices and scalp tickets. Unless no one wants to see you, then you complain about prices. Sure, there’s the occasional act utilizing paperless to keep ticket prices down, but most love the soaring revenue, because they like to fly private and live a life of luxury.

New acts?

Let’s make it so you’ve got to get on radio to hear them. Or do you want MTV to play music again too? Putting them out of business, because no advertiser will pay when everybody’s flipping the channel when a video they don’t like comes on.

But no, everyone’s got to sacrifice so wannabe musicians and crybaby oldsters can continue to play by the old rules.

I like the new rules. I used to charge for this newsletter. Now I give it away for free online and I make a lot more money. Because many more people know my name.

But that’s because I’m damn good. There, I said it. I’ve been doing this for decades. I’ve got no children, own no house and drive an almost nine year old car. I’m driven and dedicated and I’m not complaining. Because I realize life is tough and you’re owed nothing.

So if you wanna bitch know that I’m not listening.

Spotify pays 70% of revenue to rights holders.

You can’t get a ticket to a hit show.

And One Direction got a quarterly royalty of 150k for duct tape. FOR DUCT TAPE!

There’s tons of money if you’re good and want to take it.

If you’re poor, it’s your fault.

P.S. No one’s entitled to make it in the music business. That’s art. I don’t think that anybody should starve, I don’t think that anybody should go without health care, but I categorically do not believe that everybody should be entitled to make a living in music. Food stamps and Medicaid are a SAFETY NET! Those people aren’t getting rich, they’re just getting by. And if you can get by at all in music, you’re lucky. If you can’t, do something else. They’re not lining up to dig ditches, an honorable job, but they are to be pop stars. Ever wonder why it’s so hard?
 
Even worse, you want me to spin it five or ten times in order to get it…

i worry about this
so many records that don't grab you on the first listen, and so many records to listen to - WHAT'S TO BE DONE?
 
I wonder why someone who doesn't make records would be so concerned about people who do. Whatever he does, he is concerned about telling us he's good though. Which is what a lot of bad critical writing is often about.
 
I wonder why someone who doesn't make records would be so concerned about people who do. Whatever he does, he is concerned about telling us he's good though. Which is what a lot of (bad) critical writing is often about.

The lefsetz letter has been going for 25 years or so. It's a good read, even if 50% of it is just him talking about how much he liked music in 1973. In this case he's attacking other people at what they do so probably feels the need to defend what he does. He's since posted loads of responses he got to this piece, although it's not on the website yet.


here's two good ones:

I dunno Bob. They just don't get it. You can't make a clearer case than the Adobe, print shop, Smith-Corona, Kodak examples.

You've made that clear, but the human capacity to ignore clear fact is astounding. The Lowery-Byrne Crybaby Opera is funny... they ignore a lot, but especially two big things...

1. No one OWNS the product when they listen to it on Spotify. It's more fair to compare streaming to radio... Which the critics won't do. They insist on comparing it to a physical, overpriced $14.99 item.

2. The same net they wanna bitch about and say will destroy music... Has provided musicians and creatives worldwide with free video editing software, free audio recording & editing software, free poster and art design apps, free email, free website and file storage space (a musician can do an international recording project... And share giant files with collaborators worldwide...and hold Skype strategy meetings.. All free!!). Dirt cheap business cards with free templates, dirt cheap CD duplication, on and on.

But the naysayers want the income and CD sales to be 1989 level. Definition of insanity. Funny.. All these altruistic people were totally content to pay $14.99 back in the day, WHEN EVERYONE KNEW the artist was getting $1.00 or so per unit. How come that was ok, and now I gotta hear lectures about "how unfair the payout is"??

Andre Cholmondeley
GuitarTour Touring


That's some harsh shit man. Most of the bands and acts that we grew up with, it took 3-4 records before they broke. People want direction from people they respect. That would be you..... you obviously don't care, so i'm discontinuing reading your articles.

go fuck yourself.

Russ Irwin
 
Last edited:
Yeah, the idea that the cream always rises to the top ain't the case financially. I doubt it ever has been.

It's a thought provoking polemic he's written there though, it's clearly a rant but that's ok.
 
rich moth
Money_489a2f_1235109.jpg
 
The things I take exception to in what he's saying are;

Firstly, the idea that someone is not "good enough". All art has fuck all to do with good. Commercial success more a case of timing and networking, timing is arbitrary and networking is something you can excel at without having much artistic talent. So his theory about quality equating to success is nonsense. i.e send in Vanilla Ice.

Secondly Spotify, youtube and bandcamp et al aren't great tools for selling records because few people buy something they can get for free. So he's stepping on his own point there. If your band can't make money it shouldn't exist, fine, but in order to make money you should let people listen to all your music for free. That's not much of a business plan.

Personally I loved the old way of getting records. When you knew one song from TV or the radio then bought the CD or tape or whatever and had that first listen where you're fully invested in it because it's something you own. I don't know if I fully invest myself in anything I can get for free on the internet and I think his line about having to listen to a record 5-10 times to get it shows that he's got the same problem but isn't aware of the fact that his ADD approach to listening to music is a problem.
 
he makes some fair points, doesn't say anything new, and the overall argument is incoherent

in summary

edit: skip to 8m46s, can't figure out how to embed it like that

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
Personally I loved the old way of getting records. When you knew one song from TV or the radio then bought the CD or tape or whatever and had that first listen where you're fully invested in it because it's something you own. I don't know if I fully invest myself in anything I can get for free on the internet and I think his line about having to listen to a record 5-10 times to get it shows that he's got the same problem but isn't aware of the fact that his ADD approach to listening to music is a problem.

I'm with you on this. If you approach an artist entire catalogue on Spotify how can you appreciate it properly?

On Spotify you can listen to most of John Carpenter's soundtracks. It took me years to track down all that stuff on tapes and records. I even used to tape the audio from video tapes for soundtracks that I didn't have.

I think it would be hard to develop the same passion about music when it's an endless resource that takes no effort.
 
I'm with you on this. If you approach an artist entire catalogue on Spotify how can you appreciate it properly?

On Spotify you can listen to most of John Carpenter's soundtracks. It took me years to track down all that stuff on tapes and records. I even used to tape the audio from video tapes for soundtracks that I didn't have.

I think it would be hard to develop the same passion about music when it's an endless resource that takes no effort.
I think it is possible to develop a passion for music but like I said and like he said it won't be a passion for music that takes more than one listen to "get". So the passion may only be for one thing rather than the eclectic mix of stuff that most of us were brought up on.

I think you can already see the results of that with stuff like "surf pop" which is as far as I can tell hundreds of bands all playing the exact same song.
 
I'm with you on this. If you approach an artist entire catalogue on Spotify how can you appreciate it properly?

On Spotify you can listen to most of John Carpenter's soundtracks. It took me years to track down all that stuff on tapes and records. I even used to tape the audio from video tapes for soundtracks that I didn't have.

I think it would be hard to develop the same passion about music when it's an endless resource that takes no effort.

While I personally feel the same we're all coming from the viewpoint of people who grew up with physical media. There was a big hubbab last year over an intern at NPR who claimed the opposite, and really who are we to argue with that? Just because I used to buy crappy tape bootlegs to fill out my manics and blur or whoever b-sides when i was 14 doesn't make me a better listener to music than someone who has immediate access to them.

here, this yoke:

A WSJ Intern Replies To NPR Intern Emily White's Controversial Post on Music Piracy - Speakeasy - WSJ

At the end of the day music isn't a physical item. There's an argument to be made for music that was specifically made for vinyl/cd/tape or whatever can maybe be appreciated best in the correct format but I don't see why any new music should be consumed this way. Maybe we should be concentrating on saving the planet and creating less physical crap.
 
While I personally feel the same we're all coming from the viewpoint of people who grew up with physical media. There was a big hubbab last year over an intern at NPR who claimed the opposite, and really who are we to argue with that? Just because I used to buy crappy tape bootlegs to fill out my manics and blur or whoever b-sides when i was 14 doesn't make me a better listener to music than someone who has immediate access to them.

But will they still love them tomorrow?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Activity
So far there's no one here
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.

21 Day Calendar

Lau (Unplugged)
The Sugar Club
8 Leeson Street Lower, Saint Kevin's, Dublin 2, D02 ET97, Ireland

Support thumped.com

Support thumped.com and upgrade your account

Upgrade your account now to disable all ads...

Upgrade now

Latest threads

Latest Activity

Loading…
Back
Top