shell sink fishing boat with crew on board. (1 Viewer)

[Mormon Nailer]

The government, if they wanted to, could just tell Shell to fuck off. No compensation needed, nothing, just tell the Brits to get lost oops I mean the oil company.

What are you basing that on? I've been hunting about looking for a copy of the actual agreement online but I can't find it.

 

[nooleen]

Perhaps.
But I doubt that whatever happened to O'Donnell will be linked to Shell.

that's what people like you said about saro-wiwa. and shell haven't even taken responsibility, they're still trying to claim it was just a real nice gesture since those poor folk in nigeria had suffered so much.

 

[nooleen]

What are you basing that on? I've been hunting about looking for a copy of the actual agreement online but I can't find it.

so you don't even know the details of it even though you're defending it to the bitter end?

 

[Mormon Nailer]

so you don't even know the details of it even though you're defending it to the bitter end?

I know whats been reported about the agreement same as everyone - It's not like it hasn't been covered in depth all over he media - I'd just like to read the full thing for myself though.

Perhaps there is an Eirecore exclusion clause in there somewhere after all and I'll have to eat my words.

 

[D0njo]

It seems strange that you claim to hate Shell but are also arguing in favor of the rights of multinationals over anything and everybody else. As W. pointed out, there are a number of elected representatives taking a stance. Shell have recently been implicated in the murder of nine people in Nigeria. It's also possible that the people working security for Shell have sunk a boat belonging to Pat O'Donnell, I seriously don't buy the idea that he sunk the boat himself. The oil extraction will only really benifit a few people, I suppose there'll be some more fuel too, they say it's all running out an all, but thats another argument. Well maybe you're just trolling but it's forced me to think a bit more about whats going on, Shell can fuck off..... they'll probably get what the want in the end, but it's going to take a lot more time and money if people actively oppose them..

 

[Lepra]

thedonal for prez .|..|

 

[Mormon Nailer]

It seems strange that you claim to hate Shell but are also arguing in favor of the rights of multinationals over anything and everybody else.

I'm pointing out what I perceive the reality of the situation to be. That's all.
Wishing it were different won't make it so.

I don't personally like the idea that a company is a person in law (please don't ever ever tell my boss that) but the reality of the situation is that it is.

I fact I can't see how there could ever be an effective campaign against Shell when the campaigners don't seem to twig the reality of the situation and are pushing for things that are just unfeasible. There is no point looking for either a new deal or a refinery at sea. You may as well ask the tide not to come in tomorrow.

(as an aside - it takes a pretty fucking disfunctional campaign to loose a PR battle against Shell - it's like loosing a personality contest to Idi Amin)

 

[nooleen]

give it up, for feck's sake. just pretend you were playing devil's advocate or something.

 

[subbuteo !]

it's like loosing a personality contest to Idi Amin)

id say you could do it.

 

[W.]

sinn fein and the greens support this? thats totally changed my perspective on shit.

That wasnt the point and you know it, plus learn your political representatives Labour and SP were in that picture too.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

I seriously don't buy the idea that he sunk the boat himself.

Neither do I.

The oil extraction will only really benifit a few people, I suppose there'll be some more fuel too, they say it's all running out an all, but thats another argument.

There are the 1200 construction jobs
The ongoing jobs in the refinery
The VAT take on the construction work
The fact that we won't be importing gas will help balance of payments
There will be futire CT receipts
If the project is successful it will prove the reserves and we can sell more plots (and get a better deal)

Well maybe you're just trolling but it's forced me to think a bit more about whats going on, Shell can fuck off..... they'll probably get what the want in the end, but it's going to take a lot more time and money if people actively oppose them..

I'm not trolling (honestly). I genuinely don't believe that the pipe is inherently dangerous. I don't like the deal but I understand why it was made as it was and I accept it cant be changed. So on that basis regardless of my contempt for Shell I don't agree with the protest.

 

[D0njo]

I'm pointing out what I perceive the reality of the situation to be. That's all.
Wishing it were different won't make it so.

Wishing and doing are two different things. People are doing something to oppose what they see as a threat to the stability of their lives. Your take on the subject is extremely depressing, if I didn't care about anything I would be sorely dissapointed with my life. It takes time and sacrifice to do anything that has any value, to oppose the dominance of corporations like Shell is to oppose the erosion of meaning and stability. Human life on earth might well be fucked if people don't get it together.

 

[Cormcolash]

What are you basing that on? I've been hunting about looking for a copy of the actual agreement online but I can't find it.

It's based on the fact that they're the people who make the laws, and if they really wanted to, they could just tell Shell to fuck off and change whatever laws they want so that nothing could be done about.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

It's based on the fact that they're the people who make the laws, and if they really wanted to, they could just tell Shell to fuck off and change whatever laws they want so that nothing could be done about.

It's not a law that gives the rights the shell, it's an agreement made in our name by Fahy. If that is breached there would be liablity. I'm sure there is a law head here that knows the ins and out but I presume what it would take a constitutional amendment (which the EU would strike down anyway) to disposess Shell without their consent. And afterwards you can be sure no multinational would darken our door again.

 

[Cormcolash]

So what? They could still do it if they really wanted to.

 

[Carlow Punks!]

So what? They could still do it if they really wanted to.

we're not Venezuela - I often wish we were, but we're not

 

[W.]

There are the 1200 construction jobs
The ongoing jobs in the refinery
The VAT take on the construction work
The fact that we won't be importing gas will help balance of payments
There will be futire CT receipts
If the project is successful it will prove the reserves and we can sell more plots (and get a better deal)

1200 jobs, mostly for contractors from italy and other european countries. Including, as we have seen, the security jobs.

50 - 120 jobs at the refinery, with highly specific roles requiring labour brought in from outside the community.

All exploration and development costs can be written off against tax at 100%

Ireland receives no royalties, no state stakehold and only 25% corporate tax, the lowest rate in the industry worldwide.

We will be buying back gas from the Corrib field at the going market rate leaving consumer gas prices are at the mercy of the global market rates.

Tax rates;

Norway: 78% Tax, state owned oil company (Statoil)

Nigeria: 30% Tax, 55% state participation, 5%-7% royalties

Venezuela: 65.7% Tax, 65%-85% state participation, 67.7% royalties

Ireland: 25% Tax, 0% state participation, 0% royalties

 

[David Kronenbourg]

i hope this thread spills over into a scrap at the thumped 10th birthday. who would youse be up for?

 

[W.]

It's not a law that gives the rights the shell, it's an agreement made in our name by Fahy. If that is breached there would be liablity. I'm sure there is a law head here that knows the ins and out but I presume what it would take a constitutional amendment (which the EU would strike down anyway) to disposess Shell without their consent. And afterwards you can be sure no multinational would darken our door again.

You are kinda talking bollox here, it wouldn't require a constitutional amendment to nationalise our gas or even put a realistic level of tax on it, nor could the EU strike down a constitutional amendment. It would also be perfectly legal for the government to decide that an onland refinery in the middle of a community and built on top of a special area of conservation is completely unsuitable.

In reality, Shell have broken so many planning conditions and regulations that the whole deal could be considered void. They are constructing a refinery without planning for numerous other stages of the project, which is illegal. An Bord Pleanála have ruled that Shell currently requires planning permission for three aspects of work which is already underway, par example.

 

[W.]

ps - i recommend a quick read of this

- http://www.mayogasinfo.com/download/Fiosru_2_LOW_RES_Final.pdf