Zed vs Zee (2 Viewers)

[flashback]

Here, Coraline, say if a kid doesn't even learn the letter at all, say if he just learns whole thing off by heart, and knows what page goes with what to say?
And then this continued on into those reader books? The kid just learned them off by heart so that he wouldn't have to learn how to read?

Because, that's what I did. I didn't actually learn how to read till I was amazingly old, and before I could read, I would happily read books for teachers and people, who took ages to realise I wasn't really reading them at all.

Does that mean I was a thick kid? Bear in mind I was about 8 I think when I actually started reading.

 

[egg_]

I dunno how the fuck anyone learns to read in school. There's so much going on

 

[hugh]

And Hugh I know what you're saying but its actually so wrong to say buh or whatever, you're meant to pronounce the sound as purely as you can without a makey up vowel ending....

I've overheard some teachers from "the country" being particularly bad at this

Thanks! I think I understand what you're saying ...

So basically they are taught the alphabet phonetically these days - but not necessarily in alphabetic order and sometimes with various other visual/auditory/associative ideas to help them.

So does this mean that I am going to confuse my daughter mightily by telling her, when she sees a 'b' on a page or something, that it is a 'bee' - i.e. the way I would think of the alphabet - as opposed to trying to say it phonetically, since that's the way she will encounter it when she goes to school?

 

[coraline]

Thanks! I think I understand what you're saying ...

So basically they are taught the alphabet phonetically these days - but not necessarily in alphabetic order and sometimes with various other visual/auditory/associative ideas to help them.





So does this mean that I am going to confuse my daughter mightily by telling her, when she sees a 'b' on a page or something, that it is a 'bee' - i.e. the way I would think of the alphabet - as opposed to trying to say it phonetically, since that's the way she will encounter it when she goes to school?

Well, no, she will eventually have to know the name of the letter, the sound it makes, and its graphic representation. Most kids are able to assimilate all this without problems and relate one to the other ; the children I teach have learning difficulties so all the steps have to be done individually and with lots of repetition/reinforcement. The more you do with her at home the better

What age is she?
When she does start school you can find out which way they teach the sounds and follow that so you dont confuse her too much.

Again, a lot of kids in non disadvantaged schools come in to junior infants already knowing most of the sounds and thats fine. On the other hand the ones I teach who come from more chaotic homes need a lot more support and direct teaching.
I actually work in two schools, one very disadvantaged and the other the complete opposite and they are like different planets in terms of what the kids can do, the support they get at home etc etc

The little dude I mentioned before spends entire wekends in the pub and never ever gets to do his reading or anything at home . His mother just signs the sheet I send home without actually doing the 4 or 5 minutes work

 

[coraline]

Here, Coraline, say if a kid doesn't even learn the letter at all, say if he just learns whole thing off by heart, and knows what page goes with what to say?
And then this continued on into those reader books? The kid just learned them off by heart so that he wouldn't have to learn how to read?

Because, that's what I did. I didn't actually learn how to read till I was amazingly old, and before I could read, I would happily read books for teachers and people, who took ages to realise I wasn't really reading them at all.

Does that mean I was a thick kid? Bear in mind I was about 8 I think when I actually started reading.

That's called using contextual clues. You weren't thick
Most kids do go through a phase when they start reading of just memorising and using the pictures, or making up the story, its part of the process and perfectly fine.
Maybe your teachers should have spotted it if you were still doing it at age 8 though, I don't know....
You obviously turned out fine

 

[hugh]

Well, no, she will eventually have to know the name of the letter, the sound it makes, and its graphic representation. Most kids are able to assimilate all this without problems and relate one to the other

Cool.

; the children I teach have learning difficulties so all the steps have to be done individually and with lots of repetition/reinforcement. The more you do with her at home the better

What age is she?

She's 1.5 .... so most of this is still in the future.

 

[Anthony]

this is cool. The reason I ask is because our 5 year old is mad about They Might Be Giants' ABC dvd and all the songs that recite the alphabet use ZEE. I say to him "it's ZED" and he shouts back, "No, it's ZEE" ... and on it goes.

oh and egg_ there's even a song about how it's L, M, N, O and not elemeno.

 

[sexypornolady]

Isn't anyone going to report Anthony to Child Services for making his kid listen to They Might Be Giants?

 

[egg_]

oh and egg_ there's even a song about how it's L, M, N, O and not elemeno.

Haha! Amazing!

 

[sexypornolady]

Tell them about egg_ too while you're on to them.

 

[clive]

zerox
zenophobe
z-ray
xoo

 

[george mcfly]

zerox
zenophobe
z-ray
xoo

xclivex

 

[flashback]

That's called using contextual clues. You weren't thick
Most kids do go through a phase when they start reading of just memorising and using the pictures, or making up the story, its part of the process and perfectly fine.
Maybe your teachers should have spotted it if you were still doing it at age 8 though, I don't know....
You obviously turned out fine

Oh right. I see. Makes sense I suppose.
WRT later in life, I always had difficulty in remembering the order of letters, and find numbers impossible to remember. I would sometimes just look at words and just be baffled if I was even close to the right spelling. I haven't been able to remember phone numbers since I was about 12, including my own / gf's.
I did a degree in Maths, and I am a coder now, but I can only remember logic, never formulae, everything had to be derived on the spot.

I think that even though you're saying its normal enough, there is something up with that bit of my brain. It freaks people out in work still I think, when they see it.
Say, writing a word, I will often just start writing letters down, unordered, until the word is finished, and then move onto the next word.

 

[La La]

double you ex why and zee is acceptable.

every other time it simply must be zed.

 

[Pantone247]

Say, writing a word, I will often just start writing letters down, unordered, until the word is finished, and then move onto the next word.

are you left handed?

sounds like the right hand side of your brain (delaing with the visual, the shape of the words in this case) is totally kicking the left hand (what would tell you where the letters should go) sides arse!

 

[flashback]

are you left handed?

sounds like the right hand side of your brain (delaing with the visual, the shape of the words in this case) is totally kicking the left hand (what would tell you where the letters should go) sides arse!

That's interesting... not any more I'm not... I used to write with either hand when I was young, more or less without bias. Then my Dad noticed, and said I should try writing more with my right hand, because I would smudge the shit out of things as much as when I was writing with my left hand. Playing football, I kick with either foot though.

I never learned any of that brain sidedness stuff at all. I never even thought about that.
Fair play Pantone. Good point.

Edit, I think how kids learn is really interesting... how their brains are wiring up and all that stuff. I dont know anything about t though...

 

[Pantone247]

I never learned any of that brain sidedness stuff at all. I never even thought about that.
Fair play Pantone. Good point.

I got into it thru

http://www.drawright.com/

Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain, which is a drawing technique that trys to encourage to draw from the right hand side of your brain (e.g. what shapes you see, not the pre-learnt set of symbols you've been thought to rely on when asked to draw something) the site is a pretty good introduction to the whole thing and has some excersizes that, even if your not artistic, are interesting. A great book.

Funnily enough computer programming seems to rely on the right side too, cause as you pointed out, it's the logic (or lets say "the pattern") of the program you need to understand, not the numbers and letters and shit. I noticed this when I realised most programmers I know are quite creative people and some could've aced art classes had they bothered

I had problems with reading when I was a kid, but was really into art, and I'm left handed so a lot of this really made sense to me when I read about it all

 

[flashback]

holy shit, I completely see programs as... things.
I dont know how to explain it, I see the code not just as code, but as if it was a model or a machine sort of.

I always see the same thing inside the code no matter what language I program in. It is totally like a pattern, or a visual thing though.

Some days I can't see the patterns properly, and I am shit those days. All I can see is the actual code on the screen, I can't see passed it.

 

[Pantone247]

I always see the same thing inside the code no matter what language I program in. It is totally like a pattern, or a visual thing though.

A few programmers I talked with would say the same, which is amusing as you would assume it's all Maths, Maths, Maths... I'm sure Egg_ or Pete or some other programmer/creative type would know more about this

If any of this sounds familiar too you I'd totally read up about left hand right hand brain stuff, it's something that made a lot of sense to me when I first heard about it and made me feel less concoious about my shitty spelling and math and more proud of the stuff I could better instead

 

[Goff]

You in the Matrix, dude? You Tank?