Would you stay at home with your kids? (3 Viewers)

[billygannon]

It depends what age the kids are.
I mean when the kids are at school you could work from home.
For the first three to four years, there has to be one parent at home looking after them. And yeah... that is a lot of work.

It depends on the person, but some people do manage to juggle work and looking after kids. I know three women who have set up their own businesses and running them successfully and at the same time are looking after more than one child under the age of three.

I'd love to work from home because I work miles away from where I live and I hate coming home late. Being able to see my kid at lunchtime would be like getting four numbers and a bonus ball in the lottery every day (even if it's just screaming and pooing).

 

[Anthony]

working from home and being able to mind kids is unrealistic. Maybe if your kids were r2-d2 and c3po.

Dogs take a lot more looking after than most dog owners think.

 

[egg_]

Given the cost of child minders even a part-time job that you could do during nap times and in the evening when the other partner was at home would probably be more cost effective than both parents working outside the home.

Who wants to work in the evening while your wife is looking after the kids? I married my wife because I enjoy her company, not because I wanted the two of us to work shifts in a creche.

 

[billygannon]

Actually... I should say those women I know who are running their own businesses are all businesses which have something to do with kids.

 

[snakybus]

By the way, when I ask "would you stay at home with your kids", I don't mean "would you juggle a job with minding your kids", or "would you work at home while your mother/sister/whoever minds the kids". People who do this are all great and they're supermen/women and all that, but I'm not talking about that.

What I'm asking is: would you, yourself, stay at home and be a full time parent, seven days a week? Personally, having tried it, my answer "yes.....but only if I had to". So I'm very, very grateful that the missus does stay at home. I feel we have an entire generation of people being raised in creches and playschools, and this worries me a bit. They're institutionalised from the time they're a few months old. And I'm not blaming parents at ALL, it's not their fault. But I think, surely, as a generation we could do something about it, no?

 

[egg_]

What I'm asking is: would you, yourself, stay at home and be a full time parent, seven days a week? Personally, having tried it, my answer "yes.....but only if I had to".

Snap
I'd be delighted to do it part-time, but I'd find zapping imaginary monsters with the turkey baster all day every day a bit monotonous

 

[Jill Hives]

By the way, when I ask "would you stay at home with your kids", I don't mean "would you juggle a job with minding your kids", or "would you work at home while your mother/sister/whoever minds the kids". People who do this are all great and they're supermen/women and all that, but I'm not talking about that.

What I'm asking is: would you, yourself, stay at home and be a full time parent, seven days a week? Personally, having tried it, my answer "yes.....but only if I had to". So I'm very, very grateful that the missus does stay at home. I feel we have an entire generation of people being raised in creches and playschools, and this worries me a bit. They're institutionalised from the time they're a few months old. And I'm not blaming parents at ALL, it's not their fault. But I think, surely, as a generation we could do something about it, no?

Oh, I got what you were asking and it would still be, yes. However, I find it mind boggling that doing a simple thing such as questioning why one wants to have them (something rarely done even now or in the past) would not be part of the remedy.

The social stigma of being unmarried and childless is ridiculous for a woman in her 30's. I swear if I am asked one more time, "why aren't you taken and time's a runnin' out better get making babies!" I am going to scream. People have kids because that is what is expected. I think if more people were honest with themselves or more comfortable to say, "hey, that's not what I want..." the world would be a much better place.

Simple fact, kids are expensive. Hell, pets are expensive. Don't take on what you can't chew. I would love a dog but I am not home enough or have the proper place to house one. So guess what, I don't have one. Don't have 4 kids if you don't have the means and time to raise them. Hell, don't even have one. I am not directing this at you...it's just my general thought.

 

[snakybus]

They're only expensive because society has pushed things that way. It's creches that are expensive. The actual important things -- feeding and clothing a child, and loving the child -- are not expensive at all. So if you can work out a way around the first thing, then it's not about money. Having a kid should never be about money. Sure--I can't bring down the price of creches. But there are other ways.

 

[Jill Hives]

Creches are expensive for a reason. To get qualified/trustworthy people to look after your children in your absence SHOULD be a price you are willing to pay. Why is it this way? Because there are so many sick people out there. Why is that? Because so many people had unwanted kids or kids that were neglected and tossed aside. I realize this is clearly an oversimplification but you get my point.

 

[Squiggle]

I find it mind boggling that doing a simple thing such as questioning why one wants to have them (something rarely done even now or in the past) would not be part of the remedy.

The social stigma of being unmarried and childless is ridiculous for a woman in her 30's. I swear if I am asked one more time, "why aren't you taken and time's a runnin' out better get making babies!" I am going to scream. People have kids because that is what is expected. I think if more people were honest with themselves or more comfortable to say, "hey, that's not what I want..." the world would be a much better place.

Simple fact, kids are expensive. Hell, pets are expensive. Don't take on what you can't chew. I would love a dog but I am not home enough or have the proper place to house one. So guess what, I don't have one. Don't have 4 kids if you don't have the means and time to raise them. Hell, don't even have one. I am not directing this at you...it's just my general thought.

This is kind of what I was trying to get at. The people I was talking about made the decision to have children - but they want to live their life as if they are child free, so childminders, babysitters, au pairs, willing neighbours and family and friends are all drafted in to mind the child while the parents behave as if they are still single, as well as child-free. Having a child is a big responsibility and I just don't think that everyone seems to realise that.

Like Hayworth I encounter those questions about why I'm not married, why I don't have children. And, several times, I have been in a situation where marriage and children were seriously discussed (engaged twice) within a relationship. The decision to have a child is a major one - and it's not something I would like to do if I was not going to be in a position to give that child the time it needs. I believe that it is very important for one parent to be at home full-time if at all possible, at least while the child/ren are preschool age. One child, that's 4-5 years at home, 2 maybe 7 or 8... but then you're free to go back to work part time or spend your days pursuing hobbies.

 

[egg_]

Simple fact, kids are expensive

I never heard of anyone ending up in the poorhouse because of a child yet. People! Don't put off having children because you think you can't afford them! That's taking financial prudence way too fucking far.

And Hayworth and Squiggle - I'm kinda shocked at how judgemental you are. Just because you've never felt the urge to have children doesn't mean that everyone else is doing it because they're expected to. For most people having children not a "decision" or a matter of bowing to peer pressure, it's just yielding to a very strong biological urge, and there's not a damn thing wrong with that

 

[Squiggle]

I never heard of anyone ending up in the poorhouse because of a child yet. People! Don't put off having children because you think you can't afford them! That's taking financial prudence way too fucking far.

And Hayworth and Squiggle - I'm kinda shocked at how judgemental you are. Just because you've never felt the urge to have children doesn't mean that everyone else is doing it because they're expected to. For most people having children not a "decision" or a matter of bowing to peer pressure, it's just yielding to a very strong biological urge, and there's not a damn thing wrong with that

Ah egg_, I'm not judging people who have children in general, and certainly of all the parents I can think of the egg_'s and the snakybuses seem to be doing a very good job, as are the other parents of thumped.

I don't think there is anything wrong with having children. But I think there is a lot wrong with having children when you don't want them or are not ready for them.

To suggest that I haven't felt the urge to have children is silly. I adore children, and have always wanted children of my own. But I have to consider the health and wellbeing of the child and make responsible decisions.

 

[Jill Hives]

I never heard of anyone ending up in the poorhouse because of a child yet. People! Don't put off having children because you think you can't afford them! That's taking financial prudence way too fucking far.

And Hayworth and Squiggle - I'm kinda shocked at how judgemental you are. Just because you've never felt the urge to have children doesn't mean that everyone else is doing it because they're expected to. For most people having children not a "decision" or a matter of bowing to peer pressure, it's just yielding to a very strong biological urge, and there's not a damn thing wrong with that

It's not really judgment rather I find it all rather bleak. I have a strong urge to kick the people who harass me on not having them, but I don't. Biological or not, at some point, we all pay for the neglect SOME parents show their children. I am not harsh on people who take on the responsibility, just those who subsequently toss it aside.

 

[snakybus]

Creches are expensive for a reason. To get qualified/trustworthy people to look after your children in your absence SHOULD be a price you are willing to pay. Why is it this way? Because there are so many sick people out there. Why is that? Because so many people had unwanted kids or kids that were neglected and tossed aside. I realize this is clearly an oversimplification but you get my point.

Sorry, Hayworth, but with all due respect that's shite. Creches are expensive because the people who run them want to make lots of money. Simple as that. They're businesspeople first and foremost. As for the second point - you're right, it's a complete oversimplification.

 

[Pantone247]

I feel we have an entire generation of people being raised in creches and playschools, and this worries me a bit. They're institutionalised from the time they're a few months old. And I'm not blaming parents at ALL, it's not their fault. But I think, surely, as a generation we could do something about it, no?

I think we're being fucked up the wazzo Mike, we're the first generation that are worse off then our parents, there are a lot more "material gains" to be had sure, but ultimately were working harder, longer and for less money (given what money is worth, cost of buying a house, renting, blah blah blah)

I put the blame with the state and employers (the bastards) if they want to reap the benifits of trained educated people making money for them rather then staying at home with their kids they should start putting in place the insentives in place or be willing to make compromises that work for everyone... term time, subsidised childcare, 3/4 day weeks, working from home, etc, etc, etc...

It's grimly depressing if you think about it too long

 

[Pantone247]

Creches are expensive for a reason. To get qualified/trustworthy people to look after your children in your absence SHOULD be a price you are willing to pay.

I actually agree with that BUT I do think the state and employers should contribute to child care, the State via tax credits for parents with children in child care, or tax incentives for people running creches provided they keep the pricing sane. And/Or Employers contirubiting to child care funds, being given tax breaks if they invest in creches etc, etc, etc...

 

[snakybus]

Creches don't have to be expensive. Creches in France are a fraction of the cost they are in Ireland (we checked them out then changed our minds). And in Australia, D&F are on 3 and 4 day weeks respectively, so with the grandparents helping one day a week they only have the kids in care one day a week. Most people couldn't do that in Ireland, because most wouldn't be able to afford it, and many employers wouldn't permit it. It's greedy Ireland that's the problem.

 

[Jill Hives]

. As for the second point - you're right, it's a complete oversimplification.

Hence why I stated it up front. It's the internet and I'm at work, so clearly a decent well thought out debate cannot be had at the moment.

 

[egg_]

Creches don't have to be expensive. Creches in France are a fraction of the cost they are in Ireland (we checked them out then changed our minds)

Well, they kinda do. You need one person for each 3 babies, so the parents of each baby will have to pay 1/3 of a full salary to to get him/her looked after (plus a contribution to rent and running costs). In France I'm guessing that the State subsidises creches, which means more taxes, which we won't vote for.

 

[minka]

just out of interest, how many of you had two working parents?

i did, and i certainly never felt like my parents thought of my sisters and i as accessories, or that i was raised by childminders (though i had lovely childminders), or that they were pretending they didn't have children, or that i was neglected in any way. (both my maternal grandparents worked as well, now that i think of it - they ran a shop)

oh, and i fully intend to continue working, though possibly cutting down on my hours, if i have kids. partly because i have to (hello, mortgage), but partly because i want to. i like working. i'm good at it. i would go quietly insane if i didn't use that part of my brain on a regular basis. i also would hate to put all the burden of breadwinning on my partner, and i think it would be really bad for our relationship. if that makes me selfish, so be it, i think my putative offspring would be better off with happy parents than cranky resentful ones. sure, i suspect it'll be a struggle, and obviously plans can change when you have actual kids, etc., but that's the notion, anyway.

one of the many things i admire about my mum is that she tried the sahm thing for a year, decided that she hated it, and went back to work.

(cue "see, you drove her back into the workforce, you horrible child" jibes, etc.)