why are all the meteor nominees on british labels? (1 Viewer)

[Popeye]

before I launch into a mini rant about this...can I just point out that I'm not a rabid anti-British fanatic.

My question is WHY THE FECK IS ALMOST EVERY BAND AND ARTIST NOMINATED FOR A METEOR AWARD ON A BRITISH LABEL????

I can understand U2 being on a British label. They signed around the time that we didn't even have a decent venue in dublin, never mind an imprint. There wasn't the knowledge of the cash value of Irish music back then. People didn't know that irish artists would sell in excess of 300 million album units Worldwide in the 1980s and 1990s.

In the late nineties, Irish artists amassed an astonishing amount of sales. Enya alone did 40million units worldwide with 1 album between 1999 and 2003.

In the European landscape, there is a paradoxical situation where those without talent have a thriving domestic industry and those with talent have zero domestic industry.

Look at Norway, Finland and Sweden especially, who have recently punched way above their weight in the international music stakes.

All of the above have a thriving domestic setup. Yet they don't have a roll-call to match (sales wise) the likes of Thin Lizzy, U2, The Cranberries, Enya and a raft of multi-gazillion selling Irish artists.

It's not as if we don't know how well Irish music sells internationally.

Whats a real nut cruncher is you have arts money in Ireland sponsoring events like Hard Working Class Heroes or various festivals around Ireland. HWCH makes a big deal about inviting A&R from USA and UK labels along to see the bands performing....as if signing to a US or UK label is some sort of holy grail.

It's NOT and it's the WRONG attitude to instil in Irish artists.

Why don't they give the money to strapped Irish labels instead of rolling out the red carpet for UK/USA labels?

Why don't they INVEST in the domestic market instead of EXPORTING the fecking talent?

The Meteors and now the Choice music awards are milestones in the Irish music calander where we should be celebrating what's best about what's going on.

Instead, it's a depressing indication of how mucked up tyhe domestic scene is and how anal the people in charge of the purse strings are in Ireland.

And I'm including the gobshites in the arts council, the eejits in the MUSIC FROM IRELAND brigade and the gombeens in charge of HARD WORKING CLASS HEROES.

Minister for arts, tourism and sports, John O Donoghue, was asked for 7 million a few years ago for a new Irish Music Board. He declined and do you know what?

He was right.

As a famous Khazakstan journalist might say: "giving money to these organisations (listed above) is like getting a monkey to fly a plane!!"

 

[MDR]

I just can't believe that Fruit of the Loom closed down their Donegal factory.

 

[CITY BABY]

before I launch into a mini rant about this...can I just point out that I'm not a rabid anti-British fanatic.

My question is WHY THE FECK IS ALMOST EVERY BAND AND ARTIST NOMINATED FOR A METEOR AWARD ON A BRITISH LABEL????

I can understand U2 being on a British label. They signed around the time that we didn't even have a decent venue in dublin, never mind an imprint. There wasn't the knowledge of the cash value of Irish music back then. People didn't know that irish artists would sell in excess of 300 million album units Worldwide in the 1980s and 1990s.

In the late nineties, Irish artists amassed an astonishing amount of sales. Enya alone did 40million units worldwide with 1 album between 1999 and 2003.

In the European landscape, there is a paradoxical situation where those without talent have a thriving domestic industry and those with talent have zero domestic industry.

Look at Norway, Finland and Sweden especially, who have recently punched way above their weight in the international music stakes.

All of the above have a thriving domestic setup. Yet they don't have a roll-call to match (sales wise) the likes of Thin Lizzy, U2, The Cranberries, Enya and a raft of multi-gazillion selling Irish artists.

It's not as if we don't know how well Irish music sells internationally.

Whats a real nut cruncher is you have arts money in Ireland sponsoring events like Hard Working Class Heroes or various festivals around Ireland. HWCH makes a big deal about inviting A&R from USA and UK labels along to see the bands performing....as if signing to a US or UK label is some sort of holy grail.

It's NOT and it's the WRONG attitude to instil in Irish artists.

Why don't they give the money to strapped Irish labels instead of rolling out the red carpet for UK/USA labels?

Why don't they INVEST in the domestic market instead of EXPORTING the fecking talent?

The Meteors and now the Choice music awards are milestones in the Irish music calander where we should be celebrating what's best about what's going on.

Instead, it's a depressing indication of how mucked up tyhe domestic scene is and how anal the people in charge of the purse strings are in Ireland.

And I'm including the gobshites in the arts council, the eejits in the MUSIC FROM IRELAND brigade and the gombeens in charge of HARD WORKING CLASS HEROES.

Minister for arts, tourism and sports, John O Donoghue, was asked for 7 million a few years ago for a new Irish Music Board. He declined and do you know what?

He was right.

As a famous Khazakstan journalist might say: "giving money to these organisations (listed above) is like getting a monkey to fly a plane!!"

dya hear the latest apparently the meteors werent even invited, a complete shambles

 

[Beanstalk]

I agree...Brits out.

 

[psycho]

Why don't they give the money to strapped Irish labels instead of rolling out the red carpet for UK/USA labels?

Damn right.

Po box 8496 Dublin 9 Ireland

Keith

 

[lympog]

can i have some cash - releasing the EP kind of left me strapped
- leigh

 

[Alan Latchley]

I think the Blizzards are grate.

 

[Vinnie]

You're kind of all over the place there Popeye

 

[egg_]

Why don't they INVEST in the domestic market instead of EXPORTING the fecking talent?

I agree with you Popeye. It's bizarre

 

[Corey]

More corporate exposure for overseas markets mebe?

Sorry, this conspiracy-grain coffee has my reason twitching.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

The Wolfetones are on Sony BMG.

 

[Space]

Might it have something to do with the greater size of these markets over the domestic one?

 

[Popeye]

Might it have something to do with the greater size of these markets over the domestic one?

no offense, but, that's complete bollox.

If it were true, why do enterprise ireland give millions away every year in non-equity grants, to small Irish technology companies to get up and running?

Surely the irish market couldn't support all these new inventions or companies??!!

Surely these guys who want to develop their ideas, test market their products would be forced to get on the first flight to london to make things happen?!?!?!

We have the bizaar situation in ireland that money from IMRO, the arts council, enterprise ireland and others sponsoring tours of bands signed to UK labels!!

I can understand enterprise Ireland...they don't see the connection between technology and music - both are fundamentally based on copyright. Both still ship a lot of their products on Compact Disc and DVDs For Fecks Sake.They are been ill advised by the arts people and IMRO to how the music industry works.

I'm really fucking surprised by IMRO. Okay, they make their shillings from the pulbishing sector, but, I would have thought they, more than anyone, would see the benefit of supporting IRISH RECORD LABELS.

Recording and peformance are still the backbone of the music industry.

We have a superb and large young audience and a live circuit that's improving, why not have a bit of balls and support the local recording sector?

The role maybe more marketing & finance than the pre-internet traditional role of A&R + recording + marketing, but, the role a label plays is still a vitalone, IMHO. Just as vital as the small tech companies that project manage the development and marketing of a new idea.

Every small tech company has a business plan with a SWOT analysis, where they can point to the export potential of their product.

There is every reason (I can think of about 200 million reasons) that enterprise ireland should see small Irish labels in the same light.

It's not as if we can't point to any case studies. Collectively over the past 20 years, Irish artists have amassed over 200 million album sales between them worldwide.

In the same way tech companies license their technology....the licensing of albums is almost standard procedure now.

Is it rocket science to conclude that an Irish label with the same support enterprise ireland gives to tech. startups, works with a talented irish band, that becomes a big seller and noise maker here could then go on to sell direct to music fans who hear about it in boston, beijing, berlin, brisbane or bolton?

I remember Midem in 2001 when the biggest selling thing there was Enya's album. The cue at the stand was incredible. the album shifted over 40 million units.

And guess what?

It was a frigging New york label that owned the masters.

The Irish stand at midem costs about 50,000 euro. just think what a small Irish label with a talented band could do with that?

They could afford to fecking *IMPORT* the expertise in developing an act from london or new york, to work with the small label and build the project.

The Irony is the first thing that usually happens an Irish band who sign to a UK label is that they're sent back to Ireland - because we have a shower of gobshites in charge of the purse strings, who will sponsor their tours and help promote them.

It's fcking ridiculous.

 

[Space]

So if that's complete bollox, are these small technology companies there to cater to the domestic market?

Are you saying that all Irish bands who sign to a foreign label should get no help from IMRO,HWCH etc. or are you just pissed off about something that's affected you personally?

 

[Donkey OJ]

....off topic :

shoot the runner, shoot shoot the runner.
​

 

[Popeye]

So if that's complete bollox, are these small technology companies there to cater to the domestic market?

There are fecking cheese companies in Ireland who are able to sell by the truckload in america and japan.

I deliberately chose tech companies as an example, because both go through R&D (developing the songwriting craft), test marketing (touring) export (mostly via licensing, although, now it's possible to sell direct more and more) and both are fundamentally copyright centric.

As an example, let's say my name is Damien Ricepaddy and I beg borrow and steal to make a great album in my bedroom (Let's call the album "Oh!" for the sake of example), tour incessently, build up a fanbase, manufacture my own compact discs and after a while I sell 40,000 copies of "Oh!".

Substitute touring with 'do presentations' and that's no fucking different to what a small software company would do.

Yet, enterprise ireland will give the bedroom software company grants and support to stop them getting on a plane to silicon valley - the software industry's equivalent of west ken.

And get this: This is so important, Enterprise ireland will even *PAY* foreign tech companies to setup here!!! The government will give them massive tax breaks to take over the old Guinness brewery. While at the same time, they will sponsor the flights and accomodation of unsigned bands to austin, manchester or cannes. In other words, export the money with the talent.

It's fucking ridiculous.

40,000 sales of "Oh!" would mean a turnover of roughly 500,000 euro.

When you deduct manufacturing, dist. and retail. There's still a tidy sum to work with.

Ask any seasoned manager and they will tell you that 40,000 sales would guarantee filling the point depot for at least 1 night. The cost of the point is roughly 15,000 euro. A full house of 7,000 * €35 euro = €245,000 euro. Minus promotion, ticketing and misc. the manager should end up with about €200,000 euro.

€200,000 euro is a serious wedge of cash that could be used to either D.I.Y or license "oh!" (and work with a larger UK label) to crack the UK market. Either way the irish label still owns the masters.

What International label is going to say no to licensing an album that has shifted 40,000 units already in a market like Ireland?

If you don't believe me, ask IRMA for the cumulative sales statistics for the end of years 2001 to 2005. That's standard reading material for A&R in New york and London.

Are you saying that all Irish bands who sign to a foreign label should get no help from IMRO,HWCH etc. or are you just pissed off about something that's affected you personally?

WTF???? Of course I am.

The nationality of the artists should be irrelevant because this is about the *BUSINESS OF MUSIC* . The money should be used to support artists of *ANY NATIONALITY* that are signed to *IRISH LABELS*.

It's not fucking rocketscience.

I would love to hear an argument that says Irish taxpayers money, that finds its way via HWCH and the arts council should support British or USA companies?

I met one of the people behind the FMC & HWCH and she's a lovely person, but, she spent most of the meeting waxing lyrical about how she helped [insert name of irish band] to get a deal with [insert name of uk label].

I couldn't believe my fucking ears. As if that was a frigging success worth bragging about.

If you honestly think that money should not be secured to support *IRISH LABELS* who sign acts of ANY NATIONALITY and only to support *IRISH ARTISTS* well there's not much I can say.

Because that's simply fucking ridiculous.

 

[Donkey OJ]

mmmmm.
​

 

[IFF]

at least none of the best irish dj's are on british stations although northern ireland & bbc's colin murray and annie mac could probably kick all the nominees asses

though honestly most of the nominees don't deserve a vote

 

[Space]

There are fecking cheese companies in Ireland who are able to sell by the truckload in america and japan.

I deliberately chose tech companies as an example, because both go through R&D (developing the songwriting craft), test marketing (touring) export (mostly via licensing, although, now it's possible to sell direct more and more) and both are fundamentally copyright centric.

As an example, let's say my name is Damien Ricepaddy and I beg borrow and steal to make a great album in my bedroom (Let's call the album "Oh!" for the sake of example), tour incessently, build up a fanbase, manufacture my own compact discs and after a while I sell 40,000 copies of "Oh!".

Substitute touring with 'do presentations' and that's no fucking different to what a small software company would do.

Yet, enterprise ireland will give the bedroom software company grants and support to stop them getting on a plane to silicon valley - the software industry's equivalent of west ken.

And get this: This is so important, Enterprise ireland will even *PAY* foreign tech companies to setup here!!! The government will give them massive tax breaks to take over the old Guinness brewery. While at the same time, they will sponsor the flights and accomodation of unsigned bands to austin, manchester or cannes. In other words, export the money with the talent.

It's fucking ridiculous.

40,000 sales of "Oh!" would mean a turnover of roughly 500,000 euro.

When you deduct manufacturing, dist. and retail. There's still a tidy sum to work with.

Ask any seasoned manager and they will tell you that 40,000 sales would guarantee filling the point depot for at least 1 night. The cost of the point is roughly 15,000 euro. A full house of 7,000 * €35 euro = €245,000 euro. Minus promotion, ticketing and misc. the manager should end up with about €200,000 euro.

€200,000 euro is a serious wedge of cash that could be used to either D.I.Y or license "oh!" (and work with a larger UK label) to crack the UK market. Either way the irish label still owns the masters.

What International label is going to say no to licensing an album that has shifted 40,000 units already in a market like Ireland?

If you don't believe me, ask IRMA for the cumulative sales statistics for the end of years 2001 to 2005. That's standard reading material for A&R in New york and London.



WTF???? Of course I am.

The nationality of the artists should be irrelevant because this is about the *BUSINESS OF MUSIC* . The money should be used to support artists of *ANY NATIONALITY* that are signed to *IRISH LABELS*.

It's not fucking rocketscience.

I would love to hear an argument that says Irish taxpayers money, that finds its way via HWCH and the arts council should support British or USA companies?

I met one of the people behind the FMC & HWCH and she's a lovely person, but, she spent most of the meeting waxing lyrical about how she helped [insert name of irish band] to get a deal with [insert name of uk label].

I couldn't believe my fucking ears. As if that was a frigging success worth bragging about.

If you honestly think that money should not be secured to support *IRISH LABELS* who sign acts of ANY NATIONALITY and only to support *IRISH ARTISTS* well there's not much I can say.

Because that's simply fucking ridiculous.

Ok. I see what your getting at now and I also don't see why such a big deal is made out of signing to a foreign label. You do seem very angry though.

 

[Popeye]

Ok. I see what your getting at now and I also don't see why such a big deal is made out of signing to a foreign label. You do seem very angry though.

you're right. I'm very angry, actually.

I was at an awards ceremony for music journalists and PR yesterday in London and people were joking about the irish industry.

exchanging tips on how to get the best hotels during the HWCH, Meteor type events/junkets and taking bets at how long the Irish edition of the NME will last..

if bodies like HWCH, the arts council and IMRO can't take the irish music industry seriously, it's no wonder Irish artists can't take the Irish industry serious either and rush to get on a plane to west ken or austin...

The tragic thing is, if any of the unsigned bands who played HWCH 2006 get signed to a uk or uSA label, they will pat themselves on the back and celebrate it, tripping up over themselves to rush the press release out....

Tragic isn't a strong enough word to describe it.

My guess is that they don't have a clue what they are doing and yes, that makes me angry, because I know I will see these people backstage at the meteors, complete with important laminates and sore hands from all the back-slapping.