What Twitter pile on are you watching right now (4 Viewers)

Diddles

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
4,959
Location
there on the stairs
I find Judith Butler very difficult to comprehend and I thought that was because I was not academic or intellectual enough to get her but it seems a lot of people feel the same and she's notorious for word salad and very long sentences that don't go anywhere. She's still saying the same thing though, TWAW/ TWAM and anyone who disagrees with that is a transphobe. And yes we are living in anti-intellectual times, but because people like her won't brook any discussion and are pushing their ideology. They just don't seem to consider the opinions of women who don't think like them and have this 'like or lump it' attitude while calling dissenters names. And @YoungHearts , I nearly didn't write my earlier post because I think you re much more eloquent and brainier than me, so thank you
 

YoungHearts

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Contributor
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
480
Location
Dublin, Mayo
Website
www.youngheartsrunfree.ie
I find Judith Butler very difficult to comprehend and I thought that was because I was not academic or intellectual enough to get her but it seems a lot of people feel the same and she's notorious for word salad and very long sentences that don't go anywhere. She's still saying the same thing though, TWAW/ TWAM and anyone who disagrees with that is a transphobe. And yes we are living in anti-intellectual times, but because people like her won't brook any discussion and are pushing their ideology. They just don't seem to consider the opinions of women who don't think like them and have this 'like or lump it' attitude while calling dissenters names. And @YoungHearts , I nearly didn't write my earlier post because I think you re much more eloquent and brainier than me, so thank you
I was so appreciative of your post earlier, and this one now-I would have rambled trying to explain all that I feel about these issues, and then suddenly we would have been in January 2021, so thank YOU :) .
 

Lili Marlene

Trying not to have a bad day
Supporter
Contributor
Joined
Oct 14, 2002
Messages
28,985
Solutions
1
Location
Way beyond the Rubicon
I quite like Judith Butler, I think it's hard to follow because it's hard to understand because it's difficult stuff. Certainly I struggle with a lot of it. Where people make the mistake imho is thinking that because it's hard to follow it must be the right answer because we've been trained to think that getting a "good education" is in some way a moral position.

We've ended up in a silly situation where people are taking highly specific academic terms and using them in vague day to day language. Anyone who studied arts yacked these terms at each other aged 20 down the pub, trying them out and seeing how they felt. Now with the culture wars accelerated these days the stuff we were getting wrong in private is suddenly all over the news and intensified by social media and coming out of the mouths of 15 year olds.

I suppose where I agree with Younghearts is in pushing back on that and saying that it is important not to get lost in the details and abstraction while missing the basic, day to day stuff that needs to be done always. Treating women as people isn't that hard to understand, having empathy for your mate who is transitioning and understanding that it's tough doesn't require advanced degrees. There's no reason those two positions should be in conflict with each other (says I, the straight white man)

But at the same time I feel that saying Derrida and Butler and all post-structuralist stuff needs to be killed off completely is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
 
Last edited:

hugh

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Since 2000
Joined
Dec 9, 2000
Messages
5,968
I'll just add though ...
I suppose where I agree with Younghearts is in pushing back on that and saying that it is important not to get lost in the details and abstraction while missing the basic, day to day stuff that needs to be done always. Treating women as people isn't that hard to understand, having empathy for your mate who is transitioning and understanding that it's tough doesn't require advanced degrees. There's no reason those two positions should be in conflict with each other (says I, the straight white man)

I totally agree about there being no reason "those two positions should be in conflict". We can assign the blame for this conflict anyway we like (and all parties to it as usual blame the other) but it seems to me that it is yet another unecessary culture war being stoked by the right with the ultimate aim of damaging if not destroying feminism itself.

Case in point - there was a really excellent article in (I think) The New Yorker last year about how this fight between "radical feminism" and "trans activists" developed in the UK over the last few years and I went searching for it because I thought I would post a link. Did a bunch of searches to no avail because I couldn't remember the name of the author but what I did find was a whole bunch of polemical articles about it on a website called American Conservative.
 

taubstumm

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2003
Messages
4,207
Location
52° 30′ 41.69″ n., 13° 27′ 38.42″ e.
Website
www.kvt.red
I'll just add though ...


I totally agree about there being no reason "those two positions should be in conflict". We can assign the blame for this conflict anyway we like (and all parties to it as usual blame the other) but it seems to me that it is yet another unecessary culture war being stoked by the right with the ultimate aim of damaging if not destroying feminism itself.

Case in point - there was a really excellent article in (I think) The New Yorker last year about how this fight between "radical feminism" and "trans activists" developed in the UK over the last few years and I went searching for it because I thought I would post a link. Did a bunch of searches to no avail because I couldn't remember the name of the author but what I did find was a whole bunch of polemical articles about it on a website called American Conservative.
this article?

 

hugh

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Since 2000
Joined
Dec 9, 2000
Messages
5,968
Cheers but no ... it’s not that one ... though I did come across that while looking for it. This is really annoying me because it’s one of those things I intended to bookmark so I could refer to it later etc.
 

ann post

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Thread starter
Joined
Oct 13, 2002
Messages
22,863
Location
Internment Explorer sp3
Cheers but no ... it’s not that one ... though I did come across that while looking for it. This is really annoying me because it’s one of those things I intended to bookmark so I could refer to it later etc.

Captain obvious to the useless reply here but, did you check your web history?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

  • David Kronenbourg
  • jimmybreeze

Support thumped.com

Support thumped.com and upgrade your account

Upgrade your account now to disable all ads... If we had any... Which we don't right now.

Upgrade now

Latest posts

Trending Threads

Latest threads

Top