UK Garage, My Arse! (1 Viewer)

[Nate Champion]

Eh maybe 6th class, you were clearly very advanced. To this day i love the Wildhearts, although only their 90s stuff.



Ah seriously though, the good writers were better than a lot of the bands, you'd definitely get more from a scabrous self hating alcoholic wreck of a music writer than 4 lads all trying to be Liam Gallagher. In a lot of ways I prefer reading about music than listening to the latest generation of 24 year old's discover Can and chorus pedals.

Maybe, some of the writers were good, I suppose.

I'm amazed I never bought a cd by the Wildhearts... I got Terrorvision, Feeder, Idlewild, Kerbog all the Britrock suspects from 96/97/98... I can picture myself in HMV and being desperately close to buying one of their cds... TV Tan and Anthem are amazing songs still... they had a lot more going on musically than say, 3 Colours Red. Danny McCormack losing his leg is tragic... some great interviews with him out there.

I could see Lili working for the British music press in the early 90s. Striking fear into hapless indie bands.

It's the job he was born to do... a man out of his time. Sigh.

 

[nuke terrorist]

I read Select, NME, MM a lot in 1992-93 but almost never bought them after that.

a section of the press was very unhappy how little attention London was getting.
and there would be snide remarks about Americans. the didn't cover many European bands and almost nothing from the south or east of Europe, the very odd Japanese band (Shonen Knife, Boredoms) and the apart from Can, Aus and NZ the rest of the world might as well not have existed.

the second Blur LP had summed it up. it got some bad reviews and had this real little Englander vibe, it didn't sell well and they looked to me like their next LP would be their last.

there was a hilariously bad letter's page in both papers even if they were called out on a really bad journalism (a non story where a MM journo showed up unannounced at a studio where the Stone Roses weren't doing very much got on the cover) or sexism or racism they would avoid trying to apologise at all costs.

the coverage of riot girl was really sensationalist and Huggy Bear got a very hard time. they were regularly in the papers but refused to do interviews.
there were stream of sexist comments about women going unchecked.

all of this was fairly obvious at the time.

 

[Lili Marlene]

I could see Lili working for the British music press in the early 90s. Striking fear into hapless indie bands.

It's the job he was born to do... a man out of his time. Sigh.

Ah lads, yiz are very kind. The grim reality of it though, dead and people don't even know it.

'He was a groundbreaker and a visionary': music writer Dele Fadele remembered

He was a rare black journalist on the British music press, whose NME pieces summed up the radicalism of Public Enemy and the dark side of Morrissey. So how did his death go unnoticed for two years?

www.theguardian.com

I read Select, NME, MM a lot in 1992-93 but almost never bought them after that.

a section of the press was very unhappy how little attention London was getting.
and there would be snide remarks about Americans. the didn't cover many European bands and almost nothing from the south or east of Europe, the very odd Japanese band (Shonen Knife, Boredoms) and the apart from Can, Aus and NZ the rest of the world might as well not have existed.

the second Blur LP had summed it up. it got some bad reviews and had this real little Englander vibe, it didn't sell well and they looked to me like their next LP would be their last.

there was a hilariously bad letter's page in both papers even if they were called out on a really bad journalism (a non story where a MM journo showed up unannounced at a studio where the Stone Roses weren't doing very much got on the cover) or sexism or racism they would avoid trying to apologise at all costs.

the coverage of riot girl was really sensationalist and Huggy Bear got a very hard time. they were regularly in the papers but refused to do interviews.
there were stream of sexist comments about women going unchecked.

all of this was fairly obvious at the time.

Before my time but based on what i've read that rings true. I mean, go back to the late 70s so-called glory years around punk and post-punk and it's rife with horrendous open sexism then as well.

but here, listen, Neil Kulkarni's review of Ned's Atomic Dustbin for example

or his Sleeper live review (and I like Sleeper)

Spoiler

INDIE is in Birmingham. Indie goes down a rapturous storm. Indie makes everyone happy tonight. Indie is lovely. Indie is the fleetfooted reduced to leadboot toetap. Indie is every single embarrassing moment of your life returned to like eternal dog's vomit. Indie's emotional limit is the delineation of when you feel a bit shit. Indie succeeds in this. Indie is tight T-shirts and rhythm sections. Indie is everyone wanting to look like one of the Beastie Boys even though the Beastie Boys have stopped doing this.

Indie doesn't see any point in voting because everything stays the same and comfy. Indie reaps the benefits of democracy and is unwilling to try and preserve it. Indie is communal contentment over mass ecstacy. Indie is an overheard conversation that makes you want to stab in the halfdark.

Indie is four people getting together wanting to create something sublime and immortal having had their lives swallowed by pop and needing to do the same, surveying the infinite possibilities and deciding three guitars some drums and some good songs will just about do. Indie is the scornful look from people your brain could eclipse and burn a million times over. Indie is every single transcendent spirit of humanity withered and died to the desire to succeed.

Indie is musical bigotry, political apathy, casual racism. Indie is a popularity contest that hates shallowness. Indie is revenge. Indie is the class weirdo with their own thrown in the sixth form centre. Indie is the dual luxury of the glamour of alienation coupled with party invitations. Indie is sauce over sex, ignorance over intuition, Gene over Gravediggaz, Powder over Pram and if you think that's petty you weren't here tonight, this was petty-lite. Indie is utterly wonderful.

Sleeper are great and I love them as much as you do. WILL THAT DO ARE YOU HAPPY NOW IT'S DOWN IN B&W JUST REREAD THIS SENTENCE FOREVER JUST FOR CHRISSAKES DON'T TALK TO ME. Indie is the only world in which Wener's cretinous Tory! Tory! Tory! blathering would not only be tolerated but applauded for their "bravery". Indie is the only type of pop that hasn't superseded poetry. Indie is happy. Indie is harmless. Indie is in love. Indie is moving with a bounce and a skip tonight and is proof that nothing is more revolting that the sight of the inheritors of the earth enjoying themselves. Indie has won. The crowd roared.

I used to look forward to his stuff with bated breath, and it's rare I'd do that for a writer at all anymore. and I don't mean weak versions of Lester Bangs (which was a whole other writing trend that was awful), I mean writing with a bit of life in it that isn't overly concerned with being on "the right side of history." I know there's some on here that would prefer music reviews to review the actual music, e.g. the production and nothing else - music review as tool for knowing what an album literally sounds like - but that has rarely been for me. A music review should stand on its own as a piece of writing, like a short story or something.

Pitchfork has the odd good thing for sure, but it is now mostly concerned with being an immortal repository of the correct opinion on albums "in context", as opposed to a weekly screed that's forgotten about within a few days. Every album review now must be written about like its a encyclopedia entry 20 years later, everything is a David Bowie reissue museum piece you know? There are good music writers out there, but I just don't know about good music publications.

 

[Kermit McDermott]

I always feel a bit sorry for those bands.
I can imagine myself as the least attractive & least charismatic member of an indie landfill also ran.
Even the management wouldn't remember my name,
That would have been an achievement.

I always remember of one of the UK mags describing the band Cast.

"Here they come, faces like knees"

 

[nuke terrorist]

Ah lads, yiz are very kind. The grim reality of it though, dead and people don't even know it.

'He was a groundbreaker and a visionary': music writer Dele Fadele remembered

He was a rare black journalist on the British music press, whose NME pieces summed up the radicalism of Public Enemy and the dark side of Morrissey. So how did his death go unnoticed for two years?

www.theguardian.com

Before my time but based on what i've read that rings true. I mean, go back to the late 70s so-called glory years around punk and post-punk and it's rife with horrendous open sexism then as well.

but here, listen, Neil Kulkarni's review of Ned's Atomic Dustbin for example

or his Sleeper live review (and I like Sleeper)

Spoiler

INDIE is in Birmingham. Indie goes down a rapturous storm. Indie makes everyone happy tonight. Indie is lovely. Indie is the fleetfooted reduced to leadboot toetap. Indie is every single embarrassing moment of your life returned to like eternal dog's vomit. Indie's emotional limit is the delineation of when you feel a bit shit. Indie succeeds in this. Indie is tight T-shirts and rhythm sections. Indie is everyone wanting to look like one of the Beastie Boys even though the Beastie Boys have stopped doing this.

Indie doesn't see any point in voting because everything stays the same and comfy. Indie reaps the benefits of democracy and is unwilling to try and preserve it. Indie is communal contentment over mass ecstacy. Indie is an overheard conversation that makes you want to stab in the halfdark.

Indie is four people getting together wanting to create something sublime and immortal having had their lives swallowed by pop and needing to do the same, surveying the infinite possibilities and deciding three guitars some drums and some good songs will just about do. Indie is the scornful look from people your brain could eclipse and burn a million times over. Indie is every single transcendent spirit of humanity withered and died to the desire to succeed.

Indie is musical bigotry, political apathy, casual racism. Indie is a popularity contest that hates shallowness. Indie is revenge. Indie is the class weirdo with their own thrown in the sixth form centre. Indie is the dual luxury of the glamour of alienation coupled with party invitations. Indie is sauce over sex, ignorance over intuition, Gene over Gravediggaz, Powder over Pram and if you think that's petty you weren't here tonight, this was petty-lite. Indie is utterly wonderful.

Sleeper are great and I love them as much as you do. WILL THAT DO ARE YOU HAPPY NOW IT'S DOWN IN B&W JUST REREAD THIS SENTENCE FOREVER JUST FOR CHRISSAKES DON'T TALK TO ME. Indie is the only world in which Wener's cretinous Tory! Tory! Tory! blathering would not only be tolerated but applauded for their "bravery". Indie is the only type of pop that hasn't superseded poetry. Indie is happy. Indie is harmless. Indie is in love. Indie is moving with a bounce and a skip tonight and is proof that nothing is more revolting that the sight of the inheritors of the earth enjoying themselves. Indie has won. The crowd roared.

I used to look forward to his stuff with bated breath, and it's rare I'd do that for a writer at all anymore. and I don't mean weak versions of Lester Bangs (which was a whole other writing trend that was awful), I mean writing with a bit of life in it that isn't overly concerned with being on "the right side of history." I know there's some on here that would prefer music reviews to review the actual music, e.g. the production and nothing else - music review as tool for knowing what an album literally sounds like - but that has rarely been for me. A music review should stand on its own as a piece of writing, like a short story or something.

Pitchfork has the odd good thing for sure, but it is now mostly concerned with being an immortal repository of the correct opinion on albums "in context", as opposed to a weekly screed that's forgotten about within a few days. Every album review now must be written about like its a encyclopedia entry 20 years later, everything is a David Bowie reissue museum piece you know? There are good music writers out there, but I just don't know about good music publications.

Ah lads, yiz are very kind. The grim reality of it though, dead and people don't even know it.

'He was a groundbreaker and a visionary': music writer Dele Fadele remembered

He was a rare black journalist on the British music press, whose NME pieces summed up the radicalism of Public Enemy and the dark side of Morrissey. So how did his death go unnoticed for two years?

www.theguardian.com

Before my time but based on what i've read that rings true. I mean, go back to the late 70s so-called glory years around punk and post-punk and it's rife with horrendous open sexism then as well.

but here, listen, Neil Kulkarni's review of Ned's Atomic Dustbin for example

or his Sleeper live review (and I like Sleeper)

Spoiler

INDIE is in Birmingham. Indie goes down a rapturous storm. Indie makes everyone happy tonight. Indie is lovely. Indie is the fleetfooted reduced to leadboot toetap. Indie is every single embarrassing moment of your life returned to like eternal dog's vomit. Indie's emotional limit is the delineation of when you feel a bit shit. Indie succeeds in this. Indie is tight T-shirts and rhythm sections. Indie is everyone wanting to look like one of the Beastie Boys even though the Beastie Boys have stopped doing this.

Indie doesn't see any point in voting because everything stays the same and comfy. Indie reaps the benefits of democracy and is unwilling to try and preserve it. Indie is communal contentment over mass ecstacy. Indie is an overheard conversation that makes you want to stab in the halfdark.

Indie is four people getting together wanting to create something sublime and immortal having had their lives swallowed by pop and needing to do the same, surveying the infinite possibilities and deciding three guitars some drums and some good songs will just about do. Indie is the scornful look from people your brain could eclipse and burn a million times over. Indie is every single transcendent spirit of humanity withered and died to the desire to succeed.

Indie is musical bigotry, political apathy, casual racism. Indie is a popularity contest that hates shallowness. Indie is revenge. Indie is the class weirdo with their own thrown in the sixth form centre. Indie is the dual luxury of the glamour of alienation coupled with party invitations. Indie is sauce over sex, ignorance over intuition, Gene over Gravediggaz, Powder over Pram and if you think that's petty you weren't here tonight, this was petty-lite. Indie is utterly wonderful.

Sleeper are great and I love them as much as you do. WILL THAT DO ARE YOU HAPPY NOW IT'S DOWN IN B&W JUST REREAD THIS SENTENCE FOREVER JUST FOR CHRISSAKES DON'T TALK TO ME. Indie is the only world in which Wener's cretinous Tory! Tory! Tory! blathering would not only be tolerated but applauded for their "bravery". Indie is the only type of pop that hasn't superseded poetry. Indie is happy. Indie is harmless. Indie is in love. Indie is moving with a bounce and a skip tonight and is proof that nothing is more revolting that the sight of the inheritors of the earth enjoying themselves. Indie has won. The crowd roared.

I used to look forward to his stuff with bated breath, and it's rare I'd do that for a writer at all anymore. and I don't mean weak versions of Lester Bangs (which was a whole other writing trend that was awful), I mean writing with a bit of life in it that isn't overly concerned with being on "the right side of history." I know there's some on here that would prefer music reviews to review the actual music, e.g. the production and nothing else - music review as tool for knowing what an album literally sounds like - but that has rarely been for me. A music review should stand on its own as a piece of writing, like a short story or something.

Pitchfork has the odd good thing for sure, but it is now mostly concerned with being an immortal repository of the correct opinion on albums "in context", as opposed to a weekly screed that's forgotten about within a few days. Every album review now must be written about like its a encyclopedia entry 20 years later, everything is a David Bowie reissue museum piece you know? There are good music writers out there, but I just don't know about good music publications.

I was obviously part of problem Dele Fadele was talking about.
I only really realized how great rap is deep into adult life when I would wonder how it ended up becoming so commercialized from the mid 90's (Snoop, Jay Z and so on).

even worse I remember Dele's name from my year reading the NME but I can't remember anything he wrote. it honestly never even occured to me he was black.

I didn't get the 'Flying The Flag or Flirting With Disaster' issue but I do remember the aftermath of it. Morrissey only played the first of the two nights of the Madstock concerts (Madness reforming at Finsbury Park in August 1992) the crowd threw stuff at him including a coin and he refused to play the next day.
He point blank refused to explain what songs like NF Disco were about, refused to do interviews with the NME and a lot of the press. on his UK tour later in '92 had a go at the paper from the stage.
Cornershop (whose first EP had just been released and were good at this time totally different from their later hits) burnt a poster of Morrissey outside EMI's offices about Halloween '92.
John Robb who was involved with the band later admitted it was his idea. there was a few photographers present.
it was a turning point for St Morrissey and he never completely got a free ride again.
to be honest he was old hat by then anyway.

 

[Lili Marlene]

It's mad actually how Moz wrapping himself in a Union Jack completely derailed his career in 1992 but by April 1993 this was the cover of Select (apparently Brett Anderson was horrified)

 

[nuke terrorist]

It's mad actually how Moz wrapping himself in a Union Jack completely derailed his career in 1992 but by April 1993 this was the cover of Select (apparently Brett Anderson was horrified)

That one I did buy simply because I bought Select every month but not for long after that.
Chumbawamba wrote them a letter published in the next issue and they refused to take any of their criticisms onboard in response.

Select were sick of London getting little attention at the height of grunge (same w/ a lot weekly journalists) and this was their attempt to drum up something similar to 'Suede Best New Band in Britain' in NME a year earlier.

several of the people interviewed Jarvis, Luke Haynes and Anderson being photoshopped, probably had little or no idea what was planned. e.g. Haines said he'd prefer to live in big US city than a home counties village.
the piece was very anti American and completely ignored the rest of the world.

 

[Kermit McDermott]

That's right, Bert was not happy about that cover.

I bought copies of all the UK music mags over the years. The nme was the worst. Just a bunch of snide, smart Alec pricks. They always seemed more concerned with a bands image rather than the music. Even though I kind of wish the music magazine world was still thriving there is a bit of schadenfreude when I see the nme reduced to a website writing about fucking k pop bullshit.

 

[chris d]

Not the same thing, but I spent ages looking for Total Guitar last month and couldn't find it in stock anywhere.

Anywhere = Finglas/Charlstown/Omni/Tesco Finglas/Tesco Cabra.

 

[chris d]

I have bought a couple of copies of Mojo for articles I wanted on Teenage Fanclub and the Manics recently. It's poor. Very thin and half of the magazine is taken up with reviews of reissues.

I'm not saying that it should or could be better. Just an indication of where we are where we are.

Trying to get back into Chart Music @Lili Marlene A bit handier now that they have split the episodes up a bit. What are they, regularly 6 hours long? Jesus.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

You can get Total Guitar and Mojo for free online thanks to dublin city libraries

Libby

All over the world, local libraries offer millions of ebooks and audiobooks. You can borrow them — for free, instantly — with a library card and Libby: the award-winning, much-loved app for libraries.

libbyapp.com

Non-pain-in-the-hole signup process too, thanks to covid-19

 

[Lili Marlene]

I have bought a couple of copies of Mojo for articles I wanted on Teenage Fanclub and the Manics recently. It's poor. Very thin and half of the magazine is taken up with reviews of reissues.

I'm not saying that it should or could be better. Just an indication of where we are where we are.

Trying to get back into Chart Music @Lili Marlene A bit handier now that they have split the episodes up a bit. What are they, regularly 6 hours long? Jesus.

The good ones are. Anything less than 4 hours and i'm disappointed.

I got the girlfriend mad into it and all, she doesn't know who any of the bands are but she lets out a shriek of anger when it's a rock expert David Stubbs episode. Smug southern bastard.

 

[pete]

The good ones are. Anything less than 4 hours and i'm disappointed.

I got the girlfriend mad into it and all, she doesn't know who any of the bands are but she lets out a shriek of anger when it's a rock expert David Stubbs episode. Smug southern bastard.

Is he from cork?

 

[chris d]

You can get Total Guitar and Mojo for free online thanks to dublin city libraries

Libby

All over the world, local libraries offer millions of ebooks and audiobooks. You can borrow them — for free, instantly — with a library card and Libby: the award-winning, much-loved app for libraries.

libbyapp.com

Non-pain-in-the-hole signup process too, thanks to covid-19

Holy shit. I mean, I prefer the physical copy, but this is very impressive. Thanks.

 

[Kermit McDermott]

I was shocked to see 21 seconds by the so solid crew is 20 years old.

 

[therealjohnny]

I was shocked to see 21 seconds by the so solid crew is 20 years old.

I never heard of this...but I am totally robbing this line


"
Thug of the family, who could I be?
M with the A to the C that's me"

 

[chris d]

The good ones are. Anything less than 4 hours and i'm disappointed.

I got the girlfriend mad into it and all, she doesn't know who any of the bands are but she lets out a shriek of anger when it's a rock expert David Stubbs episode. Smug southern bastard.

Just been listening to Price and the other dude pontificating about Dexys. It is a nice, nostalgic, kind of feeling listening to them. It's made for us pop magazine fans. Listening to people that can express themselves in a nice flowery way. Talking about bands. I'm not saying anything enlightening by saying that it's really a podcast of old music magazine articles for the middle aged. But that's what it is.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Putting this in here but it crosses over with the metal talk

Nothing like Richey Manic and all the Britrock lads discussing whether or not metal is alive

some gas stuff in this


Richey: I think the public's perception of a rock fan is that they are neandethal, macho shitheads; and there's probably a massive proportion that are. Especially those who find the issue of homosexuality quite offensive.

Blaze: (In utter disbelief, staring and looking surprisingly close to leathering the hapless Richey) Well, I... I... I've got to totally disagree! You can't talk about rock fans in such a trivial manner, because I happen to be a rock fan! I'm into the bands I'm into, and I can only think that other people have the same intelligence level as me. I meet fans...

Ginger: There are some rock fans who don't like women, and don't like their views though.

Blaze: Of course there are some, but he's saying that there's a massive majority! And that is fucking outrageous! What you're saying is totally abhorrent to everything I believe in! I don't think you can fucking generalise rock fans like that! They have an intelligent choice about music and they're exactly the same as us. They are not fucking donkeys! I won't have you slagging off the majority of rock fans!

Richey: But even you, lyrically, often appeal to very basic sexual emotions which I'm saying that a large proportion of your audience can get off on.

MH: Admit it Blaze, you did once write a song called 'I Like It Hot'!

Blaze: (Quickly) Basic human emotions are the basic building blocks for any writer.

Richey: If you're saying that sexuality is a basic human drive then you could argue that racism is a natural emotion too. But you can't write a song like that about racism.


full transcription and scan here

Time For A Change? - Metal Hammer, August 1993 - MSPpedia

www.foreverdelayed.org.uk

 

[nuke terrorist]

Putting this in here but it crosses over with the metal talk

Nothing like Richey Manic and all the Britrock lads discussing whether or not metal is alive

some gas stuff in this


Richey: I think the public's perception of a rock fan is that they are neandethal, macho shitheads; and there's probably a massive proportion that are. Especially those who find the issue of homosexuality quite offensive.

Blaze: (In utter disbelief, staring and looking surprisingly close to leathering the hapless Richey) Well, I... I... I've got to totally disagree! You can't talk about rock fans in such a trivial manner, because I happen to be a rock fan! I'm into the bands I'm into, and I can only think that other people have the same intelligence level as me. I meet fans...

Ginger: There are some rock fans who don't like women, and don't like their views though.

Blaze: Of course there are some, but he's saying that there's a massive majority! And that is fucking outrageous! What you're saying is totally abhorrent to everything I believe in! I don't think you can fucking generalise rock fans like that! They have an intelligent choice about music and they're exactly the same as us. They are not fucking donkeys! I won't have you slagging off the majority of rock fans!

Richey: But even you, lyrically, often appeal to very basic sexual emotions which I'm saying that a large proportion of your audience can get off on.

MH: Admit it Blaze, you did once write a song called 'I Like It Hot'!

Blaze: (Quickly) Basic human emotions are the basic building blocks for any writer.

Richey: If you're saying that sexuality is a basic human drive then you could argue that racism is a natural emotion too. But you can't write a song like that about racism.


full transcription and scan here

Time For A Change? - Metal Hammer, August 1993 - MSPpedia

www.foreverdelayed.org.uk

I gave up reading the music press shortly after this was published (Sept 1993)
I can't remember ever buying Metal Hammer actually.

The Manics weren't in much of a position to lecture anyone on homophobia in 1993.
from the same Manics' archive here's what Nicky had to say on stage in December 1992. he backed himself into a corner with his comments on AIDS and this wasn't the end of it either.

Manics In R.E.M. AIDS Row - Melody Maker, 19th December 1992 - MSPpedia

www.foreverdelayed.org.uk

a funny thing mentioned in the debate is Blaze's band getting a great review in the NME.
they gave WOLFSBANE a 10/10 review as a joke.

I suppose you know about the time PRINCE was on the cover of Kerrang!
somehow the issue also featured U2 and The Alarm.

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EDIT: NICKY WIRE made the comments about AIDS NOT Richey. Sorry.

 

[Lili Marlene]

I gave up reading the music press shortly after this was published (Sept 1993)
I can't remember ever buying Metal Hammer actually.

The Manics weren't in much of a position to lecture anyone on homophobia in 1993.
from the same Manics' archive here's what Richey had to say on stage in December 1992. he backed himself into a corner with his comments on AIDS and this wasn't the end of it either.

Manics In R.E.M. AIDS Row - Melody Maker, 19th December 1992 - MSPpedia

www.foreverdelayed.org.uk

haha fucks sake man, Richey and Nicky are different people, read your own link!

Anyway, the Manics stuff is always contradictory, if you're looking for coherent, actionable, detailed political plans that can be defended like a PHD thesis then they're the wrong band for you. The Michael Stipe comment has always been a historical thorn in their side, and rightly so, but consider that The Little Baby Nothing video has a massive "All Rock'nRoll is homosexual" backdrop around this time as well. Dig into the interviews of the time and there's all sorts of dodgy stuff, half of the Holy Bible is basically a Spiked-online opinion piece put to music.

a funny thing mentioned in the debate is Blaze's band getting a great review in the NME.
they gave WOLFSBANE a 10/10 review as a joke.

I suppose you know about the time PRINCE was on the cover of Kerrang!
somehow the issue also featured U2 and The Alarm.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

not sure i ever came across that before actually, not even a guitar in his hand!