Suede - Dog Man Star (1994) (1 Viewer)

[prefuse]

I don't know if they were trying to appeal the shoegazers. It was over by then.
Noel Gallagher was the new Margaret Thatcher. The NME have turned on the shoegaze bands for not being ambitious enough, not writing mass appeal pop anthems that the milkman could whistle & not wanting to sell truck loads of albums.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Would the production not just be the sound of band infighting? Brett wants to write sexy anthems about being from a council house, Bernard wants to write 20 minute long space rock epics and this is them splitting the difference?

1994 is definitely waaay post shoegaze though, the year of Parklife, and Definitely Maybe setting sales records. And i cant imagine Suede deciding to look backwards to 1991 the year after their debut.

 

[prefuse]

From Mickapedia

"Butler became progressively more dissatisfied with Ed Buller's production. In a 2005 interview, the guitarist maintained his position on the matter, stating that Buller "made a terrible shoddy job of it".[20] Butler wanted Buller dismissed, allowing him to produce the record by himself.

It was later revealed that Butler had recommended Chris Thomas as their producer. Thomas was more experienced and had previously worked with punk rock bands The Pretenders and the Sex Pistols; however, Suede's label Nude Records dismissed the idea, saying he was too expensive.[21] Nude's owner Saul Galpern claimed that the guitarist became impossible to reason with, and also made threats to him and Buller. Buller claims he received phone calls where he heard something akin to scratching knives.[22] Butler issued the band and their management an ultimatum: either they sacked Buller, or he would walk out.[18] The rest of the band refused to comply with Butler's demands, and decided to let him walk out before the record was finished. Butler insisted he was kicked out of the band, for he turned up to the studio one day to find he was not allowed in. He went back the next day to pick up his guitar, and was told through the intercom that his guitar would be left in the street for him.[23] Suede's manager Charlie Charlton made a final attempt to reach consensus between the two parties; however, during a tense phone conversation the final words Butler uttered to Anderson were along the lines of "you're a fucking cunt".[20][23]"

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

I think they were all happy with the production except Butler and they kept this producer for the next album and some future ones. I guess you just go with what seems good at the time and regret it later

 

[Lili Marlene]

I have no issues with the production myself. I'll need to listen again and, I guess, try and find fault?

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

It took me 27 years and @GO's production insights for me to notice the weird mix so it can't be that bad.

 

[prefuse]

The new remix suggestion was an interesting idea. Keep it for the 30th anniversary mega mega mega deluxe boxset.

I don't mind the production.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

The new Van der Graaf Generator remixes are great, I hope they do it. They've already had a load of Dog Man Star anniversary/special/deluxe editions in recent times though

 

[David Kronenbourg]

The production discourse is tearing Thumped apart.

 

[Lili Marlene]

You should see the production discourse on the Prince boards. "Why is there a little bit of reverb on the drums on this unreleased track? Prince would NEVER use reverb there, it's UNLISTENABLE."

 

[chris d]

Had 4 cans and listening for the first time ever on YouTube. Up to New Generation which is a tune. One before it was a dud. Teenage wife loved these lads.

 

[chris d]

The Holy Bible is much better like.

 

[Nate Champion]

Back on it. Up to 'New Generation' myself. I had to just immediately play it again. Belter.

 

[Nate Champion]

Would the production not just be the sound of band infighting? Brett wants to write sexy anthems about being from a council house, Bernard wants to write 20 minute long space rock epics and this is them splitting the difference?

1994 is definitely waaay post shoegaze though, the year of Parklife, and Definitely Maybe setting sales records. And i cant imagine Suede deciding to look backwards to 1991 the year after their debut.

Fair enough. I'll go with Anderson's council estate blues myself [Anyone read his book?]. Good assessment though. That tension does work well on occasion. Too many strong poets may just spoil the broth though...

As for the latter point, surely Anderson wouldn't have taken Blur terribly seriously? Suede have a lot of strong identifiable elements... they are quite aesthetic...Blur are much more of a patchwork affair. Who was that bloke in an old NME issue who described Blur as "clever thieves"? I think he was in Asian Dub Foundation. I can't see the likes of Cocker or Anderson giving two hoots what Blur were up to in 1994 or any other year. Pulp and Suede have a much more evolved aesthetic surely? But you're our man on Britpop... so what the hell do I know?


'The Two of Us' - quite lovely. Nice sound there actually.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

I read Anderson's first book, Coal Black Mornings. I don't think he's all that great a lyricist or writer or anything but I liked it a lot, I want to read the second one. He takes the music and the band very seriously.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Fair enough. I'll go with Anderson's council estate blues myself [Anyone read his book?]. Good assessment though. That tension does work well on occasion. Too many strong poets may just spoil the broth though...

As for the latter point, surely Anderson wouldn't have taken Blur terribly seriously? Suede have a lot of strong identifiable elements... they are quite aesthetic...Blur are much more of a patchwork affair. Who was that bloke in an old NME issue who described Blur as "clever thieves"? I think he was in Asian Dub Foundation. I can't see the likes of Cocker or Anderson giving two hoots what Blur were up to in 1994 or any other year. Pulp and Suede have a much more evolved aesthetic surely? But you're our man on Britpop... so what the hell do I know?

Suede and Blur were arch rivals before Blur and Oasis! I know Brett was (quite rightly) very disparaging about the lyrics on Leisure,and Damon nicked his girlfriend and all that.

That'd be all 1992/1993 stuff though, by 1994, yeah you might be right in regards competition with each other but i just can't see anyone wanting to go backwards to shoegaze (pre-Nevermind music!) when the success and money is in some form of Britpop.

 

[prefuse]

I read Anderson's first book, Coal Black Mornings. I don't think he's all that great a lyricist or writer or anything but I liked it a lot, I want to read the second one. He takes the music and the band very seriously.

The only suede book I've read is love & poison by David Barnett. It's very good. Worth reading.
For general britpop, the last party by John Harris..... excellent.

 

[Anthony]

I always love the way suede just carried on when "Im bigger than the band" Butler left.

 

[Nate Champion]

Suede and Blur were arch rivals before Blur and Oasis! I know Brett was (quite rightly) very disparaging about the lyrics on Leisure,and Damon nicked his girlfriend and all that.

Duh. How could I have forgotten that little soap opera nugget...



Listening again... I think the second half of the album works better.

Not particularly taken with Bernard Butler's guitar sound on this record... on another listen. I think it's a bit weak. Cliched or something. Overblown... in a way that adds a lot of empty dazzle. And it sounds a bit thin... it should be thicker in the mix. Maybe it's thin to fuck him over in a way...

 

[prefuse]

There's a part in the last party book. When Damon hears that Bernard Butler has left suede, he does a little victory dance. With his foes mortally wounded he goes looking for a new enemy to focus on.