State of the scene (1 Viewer)

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

Y'see that's where you are 100% wrong. you do not remotely need alcohol to enjoy live music,it's a habit people have gotten into. And millions of people have proved it. Saying that alcohol is needed to enjoy live music just means that many young people who want to go along can't.
Music should not be ageist.

 

[killy kill]

Y'see that's where you are 100% wrong. you do not remotely need alcohol to enjoy live music,it's a habit people have gotten into. And millions of people have proved it. Saying that alcohol is needed to enjoy live music just means that many young people who want to go along can't.
Music should not be ageist.

I never said anyone needed alcohol to enjoy live music, the point i was making was that they are pretty much intertwined. I 've often gone to gigs and never had a pint and had (usually)a better time than i've had of gone on the lash.I also never said alcohol was needed to enjoy music...i'm langers right now, which explains the grammatical errors but,you being xedge,dosen't explain your base mis-understanding of what was a very straight-forward post.I also don't get your ageist comments,like i said about all-ages gigs, most kids are more concerned with getting wrecked and havin' a laugh than seeing a good band...i've played plenty of all-ages gigs and can remember being young too so it's not fucking rocket science

 

[Denver Max]

No they're not interwined. In Ireland yes but internationally? predominantly, no. People need to ask themselves some serious questions if they cant have a buzz without it.
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[GARYXKNIFEDX]

Me being straight edge has nothing to do with it. Assuming that people will always want to drink when they go to gigs is a lazy acceptance of peer pressure. It's a habit,and habits are easy enough to break. If a gig is no alcohol wehatsoever then people have to accept that. We had gigs for years in belfast and that was the case. Yes people drank outside before but there was still a few hundred people at some of those gigs.
More recently in dublin the Evens would be a good example. I know not every gig will have a similar turnout,in fact few would,but it's too easy to lie down and accept defeat.
I always thought the DIY scene was about providing an alternative,maybe that doesn't include "going out"

 

[niallmc]

You can never seperate live music and alcohol,/quote]yes you can

 

[RSJ]

If people are on for doing the CDr thing, i'd be on for paying for i and getting it out to people. The main thing is the tracklisting - i wouldn't for a second pretend i could put together a good compilation of irish stuff because i don't know about half of it. Maybe if we had a suggestions thread here and one on punk for it? Any other sites? Would like it to cover all sorts of irish punk music, not just the crusty stuff or whatever.

 

[Rimbaud]

For alot of people its pretty much accepted that alcohol goes with gigs here in Ireland.Unfortunately.I think it comes from the pub band culture...and those Heniken/Budwiser backed events don't help the matter whatsoever - not to mention these fucking Jameson Band competetions which make me cringe...yuk...!bog ...beer companies are the new promotor eh!?But this is a whole different world away, and does'nt really concern us i think.

What we're talking about (right?) is the d.i.y gigs/events where the focus is strongly directed towards the music, alternative thoughts, ideas, Social awareness, lifestyles...etc..maybe with some info table/distros thrown in?
I've been to some non alcohol gigs which have been great....and in Europe some of the most insane hardcore gigs i've been to sold no alcohol and were jam packed with sweaty boucing people.
One of these i have on dvd, (hope to release it after the summer all going well) - was Bora/When My Authorities Fall.Trev has seen it and will pay testimony to the madness and energy of it...that was in the Green Club in Vilnius...of course they had problems with people bringing alcohol in/pssied cider punks about making things a bit messy....and are sadly now closed due to property developers moving in to their space.
I'm rambling now...we don't have to go far really to see examples of places where the focus is'nt round the bar, and people here have heard of 924 Gilman space/Ramen(although that place wa a bit screwed up?)...Warzone collective in the past?Although i was only there for the last warzone and did'nt know much about it before that anyway.
The Basta Youth collective are a prime example...and when they bring they're Summer all ages tour around Ireland this year i'm sure you'll have alot of younger people having they're eyes opened to the way thing can be done - notto mention that people don't go to gigs to just drink, but go their for the bands they're into.
Yea you'll have the kids who'll just be there to get pissed, but its likely they would'nt have interest anyways..where d.i.y. is something dad does out the back on saturday, and where punk is some weirdo with a bad hair day and a drink problem.

Whats was i trying to say again?Ah well...
I like to drink myself to odd time...but it would be great to see a shift in focus from the bar to the rock and noise!

 

[São Paulo Punk]

The alcohol thing is becoming quite a big issue in Ireland, especially in relation to young people and its links to depression and suicide, particularly among young males.

Suicide beat road accidents as the number one cause of death for young males between the age of 15-24years last year (you guessed it, I've been studying about suicide), alcohol being named in lots of studies and researches as a major contributing factor to the causes of depression and suicide in Ireland.

All this has meant that the government has to look like its doing something about it, while at the same time trying not to lose too much from all the revenue earned from this Island of heavy supsters.

I know that I've been bunking off Seomra Spraoi meetings for the last year cause of other commitments, but maybe an approach/submission to Dublin City Council or some Arts body or whoever from Seomra Spraoi, outlining a wish to open a venue or centre/facility (using community jargon, none of this autonomous space business) that provides recreation (gigs) for young people (all ages) in an alcohol free setting, promoting fun events (workshops) in a welcoming and friendly environment (safe space)...

If there was ever a time to use this kind of approach it's now, what with the elections coming up and the issue of binge drinking teens and suicide being such a big issue in the media.

I have a ridiculous amount of facts and figures about all this stuff that could be presented in some form (probably with the help or in conjunction with the good people of BASTA) outlining what would be a very good case for the opening of something in Dublin.

I'm gonna have alot of free time on my hands this summer so I'd defo be willing to work on something like this if others are up for it. I'd also like to be able to go to gigs with my son. He's been to 2 already - The Evens and Kidd Blunt in Tower records - and he fucking loved it!

 

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

.I'd also like to be able to go to gigs with my son. He's been to 2 already - The Evens and Kidd Blunt in Tower records - and he fucking loved it!

Everyone knows kids are the future,cheesy as it sounds it's true. Imagine if the kids getting to these gigs from a very early age started learning positive stuff from these gigs as well as at home. By they time they are older they could make some pretty good impact.

 

[nofunchee]

He's been to 2 already - The Evens and Kidd Blunt in Tower records - and he fucking loved it!

and he's started singing kidd blunt style ever since, aaaawwwwwww.

 

[Bastard Eoin]

Imagine if the kids getting to these gigs from a very early age started learning positive stuff from these gigs as well as at home.

I fore see an army of militant gary sloans...that room isn't for your records, it's for your bleeding cloning vats!!! I should of guessed all along.

 

[Cormcolash]

i think the promoters around the country are pretty tight with each other.

Yeah I would agree with this, but I do think it could be tighter still, for instance the last time I saw you and the last time I saw Dan we talked for ages about gigs and stuff, and that's just us three, so I kinda think that there are things that we could all talk about better. And I do think that we could all help each other understand things in the different cities better too.
Plus I want to spend as much time with you as possible Damo.

 

[Cormcolash]

Dunno if this helps much but i've been toying with an idea - going over to The Fest in florida again in november, about 150 bands play each year and about 1500 people turn up, including all the zine and label people. Anyways, was thinking of putting together a CDR compilation of irish bands, with a decent onesheet of contacts for bands, promoters and so forth. Stick it in one of them plastic cd things you get on the front of magazines or with CD-R demos, burn up maybe three or four hundred of them (or more if people want to help with the burning, i don't mind paying for it) and just hand them out all over the shop to bands, label people, zine people, punters. I think it'd be good for getting the word out to the bands that there's interested people and places to play this side of europe other than the UK. It might also get a mention in some zines and things which could be good, maybe put together a one page website with a load of irish resources for people who're interested and ask any zines who want to mention the compilation to list the website address. No reason we couldn't do up a batch and hand them out to record shops around the country aswell, if people know people in HMV, Virgin etc that might put them on the counter or slip them in someone's bag when they're buying some punk albums....?

Good idea Brian. I for one would be up for doing a CD of this type. Gary did one (or was it two?) in the past as well, he has experience with this and I'm sure wouldn't mind you asking him lots if inane and endless questions.
Only thing is, I would be totally cool with having a CD like this given to people for instance at something like the Florida Fest, and to independent labels, promoters, zines and stuff at something like that. However, I would be pretty much against the likes of the HMV, Virgin, etc getting a hold of this, because I am essentially opposed to the music "industry" as a whole and I don't even like the idea of trying to use it as a means to get in touch with more people involved in DIY, because I feel this has been tried countless times and always turns out bad.
Still like I say I would be up for this in principle! Probably see you on Thursday anyway!

 

[RSJ]

Probably see you on Thursday anyway!

For slappin sure - Complan followed by Da Vinci Code - quality night out!

 

[Cormcolash]

Lack of releases and strong distros. I know there are a few about,Rimbaud being the most obvious,but for the most part,bands record demos and rarely anyone outside a few friends ever get to hear them. And distros,were do you all buy your records cd's etc? I buy the vast majority of mine mailorder. It would be great if irish distros could be more active and have a bigger turnover of stock.
Zines,not too many about really is there? And I'm talking more music orientated ones. It would be good if there was more,maybe with a few interviews with irish bands or active people. Also,interviews/articles with bands who are coming to ireland before they play could maybe perk up interest. Maybe even do an online zine so the printing costs are down.

For the most part most things feed each other. But the bottom line is supprt and how to get it. I think the punk scene will always be snobby,and newcomers,especially young ones can feel unwelcome or laughed at. Very few will ever stick with it.
There's too much back patting and that leads to laziness/coplacency and that's not needed. The scene has been better and worse in the past but the past is of no importance. There's more to roping people in than eirecore,advertise gigs,release records/demos and write about things be they bands or whatever else in zines. If that doesn't happen things will only go downhill.

I know some of that sounds negative,but improvement will never come from compliments.

Yeah I agree with most of this post alright.
I do think we could use better distribution of Irish bands, and I feel if we had that then it would lead to more releases from bands here. I think maybe a point that has been missed is that sometimes, a person finding one 7-inch or whatever out of no-where that they listen to and like can be a catalyst for that person becoming interested and involved in the punk scene in general. Similarly, for someone starting to get interested, zines can make a massive difference to a person that does not know too much about what is happening in their area, and we do have a lack of zines right now as well in my opinion.

 

[Cormcolash]

A lot of talk here about getting a place of your own etc.

My thought on this right now is again pretty much in agreement with Gary. At the moment I don't really see how you could operate a *basic* space just for gigs anywhere in Ireland right now without having it strictly no-alcohol/drugs. The alternative simply creates far too many problems and will almost certainly just result in continuous hassle from the likes of the cops.
Really, if you were to run a place like this, I think it would essentially have to be like Gilman and have a rock-hard no booze policy. They don't even let people drink near the front of Gilman there, people have to find car-parks or whatever a couple of blocks away if they want a drink.
However, having worked in Giros and all, I do feel that maybe if enough people were involved and put enough effort into it etc, then in time I think it is possible that drink could be allowed at some point, however that would be a debate for anyone actually doing this sort of thing to go through.

Also, I agree that more all-ages gigs are definitely needed. When I put on Capdown in Giros in 2002, there were loads of 16 year olds there, people who are now 20 and some of them have their own bands in Belfast now and have told me how that was the first gig like that they ever went to. Just shows it works!

 

[Rimbaud]

Yeah I agree with most of this post alright.
I do think we could use better distribution of Irish bands, and I feel if we had that then it would lead to more releases from bands here.

We could use better distribution?
Alot of that would be up to bands going looking for this distribution.
And alot of that comes down to bands creating connections outside of Ireland etc...and a shedload of emailing of course!
Contacting distros/shops/other bands etc...i get emails daily from bands from all over asking if i can take stuff(mostly E.Europe) - i can't take it all unfortunatly, and some of it is'nt my thing - and then some of it i'd love to take...and some of which i am currently waiting for in the post or is on the rimbaud distro site already from Russia/Czech Republic.

If anyone wants to widen their distribution, just go to any site that has links to loads of distros etc...(the releases section of my site or ANY distro site has this - and email the lot of them!

 

[Rimbaud]

A lot of talk here about getting a place of your own etc.........

I think with this it would help if you got the community involved with the space in question.Create connections with local groups etc....make the community more familiar with the positive aspects of your project etc....common sense really...

 

[damien]

Really, if you were to run a place like this, I think it would essentially have to be like Gilman and have a rock-hard no booze policy. They don't even let people drink near the front of Gilman there, people have to find car-parks or whatever a couple of blocks away if they want a drink.

not being negative here, just realistic. gilman has paid security to make sure you dont drink outside and still depending on the band people still do it. even after there was all the discussion about cans, etc, there was still some people openly drinking cans outside the entrance to the last porco dio.

 

[Dylan]

from our experience with paddys hall from the early days when people drank and it was impossible to control to doing bag checks at one or two random gigs out of tens of them and finally to a respected non drink scenario. people do accept that drink is not allowed. Some of the older crowd go down the beach and do it and then come to the gig and we have no problem with that as long as the person is not acting the gobshit or fucking it up for other people. All in all though we have been able to make gigs alcohol free and recently there have been tons of gigs there were i havnt even found one can there afterwards. People know that there are a lot of people in the collective and that someone is bound to see them drinking and that they'll be kicked out.

So they respect it and it makes a good time for all, and our secutiry isnt paid, or even security really. It is a rota (of boys and girls). Two stand at the gate and two in the door at the table for 40 min shifts. they both have walky talkys to comunicate with each other if the people at the gate are having trouble or vice versa. If someone feels they need help theres always a good few of us in at the gig or outside who will be there to sort stuff out. If the responsibility is spread out on a volunteer basis I think it works. Perhaps it would be better to look at somewhere like ABC No Rio as a model as opposed to Gilman. The people who operate the door and set up the gig just come to a meeting or turn up early before a gig to volunteer. I think things could work this way.

Also the project as a whole gets more respect from the community if it is not providin another platform for people to drink. And with that respect it is possible to build much bigger links and relationships with the community which is something fantastic.