'Ra get raided (1 Viewer)

[spiritualtramp]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4314802.stm

£30 million!

But I'm sure there is an innocent explanation for it

 

[LazlowJones]

Terrorists Suck!

 

[Problematic]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4314802.stm

£30 million!

But I'm sure there is an innocent explanation for it

you're a gas auld sensationalist spirutualtramp, every time the word republican gets bandied about on the telly you post some nonsense here, you've been bleating for years about the IRA, when they announced disarmament, all you had was a couple of overused sarcastic one liners to contribute. Where was your post concerning Doris Day getting popped the other night, where are all your posts about the continued use of murder and violence by the UDA, where were your posts about Loyalists running amok a couple of weekends back ? Your one trick pony of Republican bashing is running out of avenues bud.

 

[spiritualtramp]

you're a gas auld sensationalist spirutualtramp,

Why thank you.

every time the word republican gets bandied about on the telly you post some nonsense here, you've been bleating for years about the IRA

Well I do actually think that back in the day when refugee camps were set up down south for catholics burnt out of their homes etc. there were some genuinely decent people involved in the IRA. Now they just seem to be pointlessly violent yobbos that blew kids up in Manchester/beat people to death with sewer rods for looking at someone the wrong way/intimidators of widows. Why should I support these people?

when they announced disarmament, all you had was a couple of overused sarcastic one liners to contribute.

I'm genuinely upset that my consumer rights will be affected by this - if they disintegrate totally where will I buy my illegal tobacco and fireworks?

Where was your post concerning Doris Day getting popped the other night,

Here it is now - live by the sword, die by the sword.

where are all your posts about the continued use of murder and violence by the UDA, where were your posts about Loyalists running amok a couple of weekends back ? Your one trick pony of Republican bashing is running out of avenues bud.

The crucial difference is that members of the UDA haven't been elected to Stormmont, have they? Like, would you fancy Johnny Adair as education minister - I somehow doubt it. Any illegal activity or ownership of weapons is totally unacceptable to me, but if politicians are linked to this stuff it is a lot worse as it fucks up the peace process.

As for the Loyalists running amok, I don't think it should be treated as a sectarian matter. It doesn't make a difference to me if it is catholics or protestants hurling bricks and petrol bombs at the PSNI, if anybody does it it is bloody unacceptable.

 

[Problematic]

Now they just seem to be pointlessly violent yobbos that blew kids up in Manchester/beat people to death with sewer rods for looking at someone the wrong way/intimidators of widows. Why should I support these people?

I'm not asking you to support anything, just maybe a little more even handedness in your condemnation, rather than the tired old DUP line you constantly trot out

Any illegal activity or ownership of weapons is totally unacceptable to me, but if politicians are linked to this stuff it is a lot worse as it fucks up the peace process.

ok, let me get this straight, your stance is that Sinn Fein are linked to weapons so as a result this fucks up the peace process beacuse it makes them unworthy politicians ? How so ? Surely as a result of this peace process, rather than fucking it up, Sinn Fein have siezed a never before afforded opportunity to take republicanism down a path that doesn't involve weapons. Maybe I'm alone here but that doesn't seem like a fuck up to me, that seems like pretty much exactly what a peace process should be about, taking weapons out of the equation.

you can't be seriously trying to tell me people like Paisley and the DUP have no connections or links to the UDA. Even their close and intertwined relationship with the sectarian Orange Order is enough to make me not want them in power, but I accept that they have to be to move this process forward. For you to try and say, Martin McGuninness shouldn't sit in Stormont because of his history but good upstanding democrats like Ian Paisley should is rediculous. Do Paisleys Ulster Protestant Volunteers some of the first armed paramilitaries in the six counties in this recent phase of history not fall into your criteria or is there a time limit on these things with you, what about more recently with Ulster Resistence, the brainchild of Paisley and Peter Robinson, you can't deny weapons links there as it is well documented. DUP assembly members are seen day in day out walking their beats with UDA leaders, they refuse to condem or comment on murders and intimidation carried out by the UDA. It must make life easier for you to bang on about Sinn Fein being the only heads with paramilitary links but it just isn't the case. If only Paisley and his ilk had the courage and belief in his position to make even an attempt at taking weapons out of the Loyalist side of the equation then we may see some progress. Unfortunately, he like you shows no sign of moving from his ingrained dirty fenian bastards mantra.

 

[azezelo]

Surely as a result of this peace process, rather than fucking it up, Sinn Fein have siezed a never before afforded opportunity to take republicanism down a path that doesn't involve weapons.

What, unlike DeValera in the '20s or Goulding in the '60s?
Sinn Fein has accepted the reality of partition and the six-county state. Yes, they're still playing the long game but how does that make them quantifiably different from the other armed groups in Irish history who have abandoned the gun to pursue constitutional politics? Except for the fact that they've got a lot more cash at their disposal.
By any application of the 'classic' republican analysis, Sinn Fein has become a constitutional nationalist party.
Yes, they are still agitating and militant at the local level but their fundamental position is now one of critical acceptance of the statelet / status quo.

Having said all that, it's still pretty clear that it is the combined forces of unionism / loyalism who are the dangerous and destabilising elements in northern society at the moment. They are the ones most engaged in punishment beatings, murders, intimidation, sectarianism, general thuggery and civil disruption right now. And it's interesting how the voices of unionist politicians seem more intent on inventing problems with the act of IRA decommissioning than focussing on the terrorists in their own community.

 

[Problematic]

What, unlike DeValera in the '20s or Goulding in the '60s?

the difference being that neither DeValera or Goulding were able to bring everybody with them, the current leadership has managed over a long period of time to ensure pretty much 100% support for their agenda. While a lot of republicans are exceptionally wary of the current strategy, especially the recent decomissioning, they still had enough faith in the leadership to trust what they were pushing for will ultimately be the right route, neither DeValera nor Coulding could do that.

Sinn Fein has accepted the reality of partition and the six-county state. Yes, they're still playing the long game but how does that make them quantifiably different from the other armed groups in Irish history who have abandoned the gun to pursue constitutional politics?

I don't accept at all that the Sinn Fein have accepted the reality of partition, they have accepted the reality that the only way forward is to use the institutions within the six counties to move our agenda forward, but acknowledging that reality and acceptance of the partitionist state as is are different things.

The major difference between Sinn Fein and the other armed groups in Irish history that have abandoned the gun to pursue constitutional politics is the fact that Sinn Fein are pushing their political agena on both sides of the border. DeValera and everybody else you are referring to were content to sit back in the 26 counties and put a lid on whatever they may have pushed for in the past. Once those people moved into constitutional politics in the 26 counties they were not prepared to rock the boat and as their political parties were 26 county only they had nothing to gain politically by "interfering" in "northern politics". Sinn Fein is a completly different kettle of fish, with a 32 county activist network it will be very hard for the leadership to become complacent with regards to the stated aims of the party even if they wanted to.

Except for the fact that they've got a lot more cash at their disposal.

that may have been true in the past but do you really believe McDowell doesn't vet every penny going in and out of party accounts ? People always bandy about the line about how Sinn Fein spend so much money on elections etc. but I know from my own cumann work, all election funds are raised locally, we pay for our own posters, leaflets etc. Nothing comes from this mythical party piggy bank that everybody gets wads of cash from.

 

[Janer]

you're a gas auld sensationalist spirutualtramp, every time the word republican gets bandied about on the telly you post some nonsense here, you've been bleating for years about the IRA, when they announced disarmament, all you had was a couple of overused sarcastic one liners to contribute. Where was your post concerning Doris Day getting popped the other night, where are all your posts about the continued use of murder and violence by the UDA, where were your posts about Loyalists running amok a couple of weekends back ? Your one trick pony of Republican bashing is running out of avenues bud.

Wow excellent post......and correct too.
The raids on the same day that Sinn Fein were meeting bLIAR were a bit coincidental methinks........

 

[Polo]

I don't accept at all that the Sinn Fein have accepted the reality of partition, they have accepted theen Sinn Fein and the other armed groups in Irish history that have abandoned the gun to pursue constitutional politics is the fact that Sinn Fein are pushing their political agena on both sides of the border.

Wishful thinking on your part.

In the South they are following directly in the footsteps of Fianna Fail and then Clann na Poblachta. In the North they are rapidly becoming just another SDLP but with added sectarian teeth. All the jargon and gibberish in the world about Irelands of Equals or progressing their agenda doesn't change those core facts.

And by the way, the Sticks were also a 32 County operation although they were gradually marginalised in the North by their failure to play the sectarian game. Sinn Fein won't be caught out that way - their Northern strategy is to be the best defenders of the interests of Catholics.

 

[rothko]

...I know from my own cumann work, all election funds are raised locally, we pay for our own posters, leaflets etc. Nothing comes from this mythical party piggy bank that everybody gets wads of cash from....

Of course it's not!

The party piggy bank is used for terrorist pensions and funding the IRA as it finally drops all pretence and becomes the filthy criminal "mafia" organisation some of us always knew it was.

zzzzz...

 

[taubstumm]

Of course it's not!

The party piggy bank is used for terrorist pensions and funding the IRA as it finally drops all pretence and becomes the filthy criminal "mafia" organisation some of us always knew it was.

zzzzz...

if i can just play devil's advocate for a moment...

from the bbc, today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4356802.stm

The report says that in the six months up to the end of August loyalists were responsible for much more violence than republicans.

i'm no fan of the i.r.a., but i'd certainly be on for reducing the amount of rhetoric that gets thrown around in these posts, rothko... it doesn't help anyone understand anything any better... 'filthy criminal mafia' yadda yadda yadda

 

[broken arm]

stop press.

tom is in the ra.

 

[rothko]

if i can just play devil's advocate for a moment...

from the bbc, today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4356802.stm



i'm no fan of the i.r.a., but i'd certainly be on for reducing the amount of rhetoric that gets thrown around in these posts, rothko... it doesn't help anyone understand anything any better... 'filthy criminal mafia' yadda yadda yadda

Sorry, I meant freedom fighters, obviously.

!zed

 

[taubstumm]

Sorry, I meant freedom fighters, obviously.

!zed

*sigh*

all i'm saying is that the legitimate, important and relevant points that you're making are being obscured by the manner in which you're making them

but if you want to go out of your way to put words in my mouth, fine, your choice

 

[Problematic]

Of course it's not!

The party piggy bank is used for terrorist pensions and funding the IRA as it finally drops all pretence and becomes the filthy criminal "mafia" organisation some of us always knew it was.

zzzzz...

well make up your mind then, a couple of months back you were making the claim that the Nothern Bank cash was ear marked for Sinn Fein party funds.

As for your filthy criminal mafia organsiation tabloidesque splash, good stuff, I hear the IMC are currently looking for info so I'd pass on whatever you've got before they cod us all with the report expected to say the Ra have actually gone away. McDowell will probably wrangle a street naming in your honour because he has failed to find this golden info you possess.

 

[rothko]

I hear the IMC are currently looking for info so I'd pass on whatever you've got before they cod us all with the report expected to say the Ra have actually gone away.

I wish Sinn Fein/IRA would make up their minds on how they feel about the IMC.

I'm confused.

Previous reports by the IMC that were critical of Republican terrorist activity/criminality were quickly dismissed by SF/IRA as nothing more than "securocrat" nonsense written by "two Lords and a spook".

But now it seems a more positive report by the IMC has been published, describing a recent decline in Republican criminal activities. Which, of course, is encouraging.

Will SF/IRA be as eager to dismiss this report too?

 

[Problematic]

I wish Sinn Fein/IRA would make up their minds on how they feel about the IMC.

I'm confused.

Previous reports by the IMC that were critical of Republican terrorist activity/criminality were quickly dismissed by SF/IRA as nothing more than "securocrat" nonsense written by "two Lords and a spook".

But now it seems a more positive report by the IMC has been published, describing a recent decline in Republican criminal activities. Which, of course, is encouraging.

Will SF/IRA be as eager to dismiss this report too?

already done bud, at every opportunity before and since decomissioning the party has dismissed anything to do with the IMC, only yesterday while speaking to the BBC about the impending IMC announcement, Adams said that he remained "quite dismissive of the IMC", the fact that it is securocrat driven remains. I only used the IMC to illustrate my point as you have used their ponderings to your own ends before, but you can substitute the IMC with Irish Or British Government if you wish. As always though you choose to deflect away again using purile arguments rather than gathering your thoughts for a minute and actually taking a realistic approach to the subject at hand instead going round in the same old pointless circle.



ps. it was three spooks and a lord not "Two Lords and a spook" but what do details and facts ever matter eh Rothko ?