Pay to Play - your opinions please (1 Viewer)

[#10-7]

its a business.
garage gigs is 40 tickets at €5 a ticket. thats €200. so say 3 bands. easily get 40 people. thats €600. so say a very generous €100 a week promotion (no way but anyway...) and the dorans takes €1 per person in, so €120, that leaves a basic profit of €380. and thats at least. the bands can make a profit for every ticket sold over 40, and garageland take only €2 of the €5 then.
adding to the fact that isaac butts is cheaper.... or there's four bands on in a night...

theives.

 

[Hector Grey]

well, it's been a while since i was in a "young" band.

entrepenuers, especially vinters, are in the business of ripping of the beguilled. not much can be done about that. as for paying to play, like with walshey and gig city etc, that's promotors, not venues. other venues just charge for the venue. if you've paid for the venue, it's assumabel you can charge what you want on the door and keep all the dosh yourself. if you pay, say, 200 yurps to play a show and noone turns up, then you don't get your money back. nuts. but if you pay 3-400 yurps to rent a gaf, and get all teh gear there, and advertise, and all the assorted paraphenalia of the giggin game, and then nobody turns up, you're fucked. if you're being asked to pay to play from some promotor, the onus is still on you to get punters into the gaf, but also you can get the prmotor to promote, and the transport costs are reduced by having a backline there, or onny having to bring an amp or something. it's a diffycult one, cos you'd like to think some promotors are being alturistic and actually like bands and that, but they're prolly not....

i'm thirsty now.

 

[#10-7]

Originally posted by speed racer
blah blah blah blah

i don't like their music either.
but the fact is you don't know who half the people on this board play with. and we don't know who you play with.
so just be careful who you slag off.

 

[figs]

Originally posted by Psychotic no 2
I think it's a good point but I think you can make the argument that if bands get people to come along (which they generally do if they're putting on a gig, like, as you said) surely a cover charge on the door should be enough to make the venue owner happy - people will be paying in AND buying drinks that wouldn't have been sold otherwise.

That's true for loads of gigs, but I've been to enough monday or tuesday night gigs in an empty whelans to make me wonder if the venue would bother with gigs on some nights if they were not guarenteed the rental money from the band, as alcohol sales are way down on these days. Pubs are just businesses out for a profit, or at worst, no loss. If they didnt make their cash from gigs (either through renting the place out, or alcohol sales) they'd probably turn into a more conventional boozer, or worse, put on covers bands every night.

 

[Speed Racer]

Originally posted by lorcanzo


i don't like their music either.
but the fact is you don't know who half the people on this board play with. and we don't know who you play with.
so just be careful who you slag off.

I know who alot of the people on this board play with actually. It ain't hard to figure out. So will you tell yer mate Paul he has a critic if you don't like his music and posted that on a thread, and then told me not to post an opinion like that on a thread. Can you see the Irony? Can you? .......its beautiful.

 

[Dan]

Originally posted by Hector Grey


ah here. there's no such thing as a free gig. you either hire a venue cos you want to be the boss or you pay some shyster a few ton for the privlidge of playing in his venue. what's the differance, really?

Not actually true. Well if the whole country is taken into account that it is. In many other towns around the country you get the place for free and you're paid a fixed amount after the gig. The owner presumes you bring a good crowd in, they buy more drink, and they can justify paying you.

 

[Hector Grey]

Originally posted by Dan


Not actually true. Well if the whole country is taken into account that it is. In many other towns around the country you get the place for free and you're paid a fixed amount after the gig. The owner presumes you bring a good crowd in, they buy more drink, and they can justify paying you.

well, everyone should play there and stop complaining so.

rappa. sorted.

 

[Dan]

Originally posted by Hector Grey


well, everyone should play there and stop complaining so.

rappa. sorted.

Exactly, lets hear no more about it. Shu'up the lot a ya..

 

[Speed Racer]

Originally posted by Dan


Not actually true. Well if the whole country is taken into account that it is. In many other towns around the country you get the place for free and you're paid a fixed amount after the gig. The owner presumes you bring a good crowd in, they buy more drink, and they can justify paying you.

Sorry, but it does sound like the Country & Western gig scene in The Blues Brothers.

 

[Keeror]

Originally posted by figs
...alcohol sales are way down on these days.

yeah, and the problem with taxis is that there's too many of them.

Bill and Ted had a "No Pay to Play" sign in their rehearsal garage, didn't they?

There's a big difference between hiring a space with a PA, a sound man and a bar for a night for your own use and paying a promoter (be they the venue owner or someone else) to be allowed perform at their gig. In my experience, Dublin has mostly the former. I consider the latter to be morally wrong, on the grounds that playing a gig is work, and one should not have to pay to work in any circumstance (working for free by choice is another kettle of fish). It's akin to a band asking their support act to pay to open for them. No doubt that happens too.

Is the "something" you are "doing" (oo-er) going to be in the Turbine, Ms. e*?

 

[MDR]

At the root of a lot of problems like this, is the apparent lack of demand for independent music around Dublin. A lot of people who go to gigs and buy indepedent releases are in bands themselves (except Billy) or know people in bands. Most average punters seem to prefer a pub without a live band, unfortunately.

Really, if there was a floating crowd in Dublin who would show up to, say, the Isaac Butt, just because it had live music, from there they would discover some band they never heard of and viola, the nucleus of a fan base begins.

As things stand, pay to play or not, most bands are playing to people known to them and then a few others. Which gets back to the the old 'getting bums on seats' problem.

Incidentally, I had a crackin' night last friday at the lower deck.

 

[#10-7]

Originally posted by Speed Racer


I know who alot of the people on this board play with actually. It ain't hard to figure out. So will you tell yer mate Paul he has a critic if you don't like his music and posted that on a thread, and then told me not to post an opinion like that on a thread. Can you see the Irony? Can you? .......its beautiful.

em... you don't get it do you?
doesn't matter... forget it.

 

[Chocohead]

Originally posted by Dan


Not actually true. Well if the whole country is taken into account that it is. In many other towns around the country you get the place for free and you're paid a fixed amount after the gig. The owner presumes you bring a good crowd in, they buy more drink, and they can justify paying you.

that works fine when you're doing covers, but original bands dont have a hope of getting gigs in pubs outside of the cities unless they have something to sell and have some sort of good rep. I'd be glad if there were a few plalces round here that had pay for play, small bands club together whilst the bigger ones sell tickets. thats how we gigged ten years ago in that big kip across the water, but it was only #40 for 50 tickets. most of them got used as roach material, but it was a cheap night out.

 

[jpat]

this is crazy stuff, and it really doesn't happen much here in the states

it happens sometimes in nyc, but mostly at really high profile jazz supper clubs where up and coming jazz singers are trying to get noticed
but as far as paying clubs for the sound system, the room, the soundguy, promoter and such, that's nuts
if'n a band don't draw, they don't get asked back, nor do they get recommended
that way the band works to bring in the people and to get the money

 

[snap-apple]

not so interesting fact - nirvana's 'stay away' was originally 'pay to play' - i have a crappy recording of it on tape somewhere. and then geffen got them to change the name of the song for the album. principles huh?

 

[Speed Racer]

Originally posted by lorcanzo


em... you don't get it do you?
doesn't matter... forget it.

Ah Jayzus Lorcanzo, don't worry. I got it. I think you got a little lost in the woods yerself there. But anyway, it was fun...

 

[Psychotic no 2]

Stop fighting now lads...


Thanks to all of yous for replying and giving me lots to work with. Never knew that about Nirvana - v. interesting .

cheers.

 

[Speed Racer]

Originally posted by Psychotic no 2
Stop fighting now lads...
Never knew that about Nirvana - v. interesting .

cheers.

You can get a bootleg CD in any small Record Shop in Dublin called 'Outcestiside' which is loads of Nirvana demos and shabby recordings, but the songs all have their original names, and have different choruses to the Nevermind versions. Some of it rocks.

 

[silo]

speedy moments number 137.

wherein speedy slags a band, gets admonished for being a loudmouth who hasn't a clue what he's on about, immediately jumps in with a retraction of said slag and gets a reply saying yeah-well-watch-it-in-future and, bizarrely, immediately jumps back in with another slag.

conclusion:

- speedy only ever has opinions for the sake of having an opinion, thereby facilitating the belligerence/contrition cycle due to the fact that he never believes in the slags or the apologies in the first place anyway.

Originally posted by Speed Racer


I know who alot of the people on this board play with actually. It ain't hard to figure out. So will you tell yer mate Paul he has a critic if you don't like his music and posted that on a thread, and then told me not to post an opinion like that on a thread. Can you see the Irony? Can you? .......its beautiful.

 

[Speed Racer]

Originally posted by silo
speedy moments number 137.

blah, blah, blah, blah, silo needs regurgitate crap no one wants to hear

I don't want this thread rearing its ugly head over and over. All I'll say is. I didn't retract my original slagging of the said band. If you READ it properly. I saw them live and they made me puke 'The Bends' flavoured vomit. I DO know what I'm talkin about. Who are you exactly with your high and mighty opinion? A professional recording artist with years of success or something? What exactly validates an opinion in your mind? Cos I stuck to mine. I found it amusing that Lorcanzo tells me to watch my opinions of some bands here (coz you don't know who everyone here plays with), and in the exact same statement says even he didn't like the said band. Thats hypocracy. Besides, how does he know I don't know who alot of people here are? Thats presumptious. He doesn't even know who alot of people here are. Do you Follow me. NICE and SPARKLING clear. I won't slag you off. It's silly. Actually this whole thread was silly to begin with. So heres a SINCERE apology:

I apologise sincerely for this thread still being on the board. And to the people who were sick of this petty letter right from the beginning. Could Pete please close it? Thankyou

Speed