No Béarla - Amazing but depressing (2 Viewers)

[magicbastarder]

language is just a tool. You can create art with it, but it's not art itself, any more than a paintbrush or a fiddle is.

to draw your analogy out, losing irish might be then akin to losing the guitar as a musical instrument.

 

[nlgbbbblth]

Fucken hell nlgbbbblth, look at your rep! It's 666666!!!

I'm scared.

I'm gonna play this twice before I go to sleep,

 

[plug]

heheh awesome... shit, I was gonna rep you there, but I can't! that would ruin everything!!!

 

[classic seanc]

NOBODY REP NLGBBBBLTH!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[nlgbbbblth]

pricks

 

[Scientician 0.8]

Oh well . Your perfect rep has gone the way of our native tongue.

 

[egg_]

Nor does saying that culture is already lost (which is not true in any case) provide a reason for allowing a language to die away.

Well
Hmmm
What I'm trying to say is actual living Irish language culture is very very limited. And older Irish language culture is already inaccessible to most people. And I don't see that you need a reason for allowing the language to fall out of use - rather that you need a reason to try and keep it in use

As for language as 'a tool for art' - I don't get you. The Irish language is art.

No I don't think so. Sure, it has distinctive characteristics and its own idiom, but that doesn't make it art, any more than, say, uileann pipes are art

 

[egg_]

to draw your analogy out, losing irish might be then akin to losing the guitar as a musical instrument.

Yep
It most likely will be lost, eventually, y'know. Much as I love the sound of a distorted guitar, it's the music that counts, not the instrument.

 

[therealjohnny]

Yep
It most likely will be lost, eventually, y'know.

I dunno, I saw that episode where Buck Rogers was dancing to futuristic music- alright it was synthisised but it was very like 70s disco-lite with a wahwah/funky guitar

and this was in the 25th century!

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[Scientician 0.8]

On that note there was an Irish speaker in an episode of Andromeda I hear. So it's got a good few years left too. Discotronic funk as gaeilge is the wave of the future.

 

[therealjohnny]

Zardoz has irish in it

and some Aerosmith album- early 90s

there you go now

 

[Scientician 0.8]

So does Gangs of New York, but the less mentioned about that the better.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I now have been in touch with conrad na gaeilge

 

[Jerry Twig]

Well
Hmmm
What I'm trying to say is actual living Irish language culture is very very limited. And older Irish language culture is already inaccessible to most people. And I don't see that you need a reason for allowing the language to fall out of use - rather that you need a reason to try and keep it in use


No I don't think so. Sure, it has distinctive characteristics and its own idiom, but that doesn't make it art, any more than, say, uileann pipes are art

Yes, and the idea is to keep it in use and further promote its use in order to re-invigorate the language and by extension the culture. That is precisely why it is worth preserving, and answers your original question.

As for the tool of art thing, I get it now. Then an Irish poem is art, and the language the tool. But the Irish poem is a unique piece of art, that is not the same piece of art when translated into English.

 

[coraline]

interesting thread.

i did well in irish in school but despised it and still do, possibly the psycho religious fanatic hell and brimstone teacher i had for 6 years didnt help.

i must be one of the very few teachers who doesnt enjoy/like irish and i love the fact that i dont have to teach it any more.

the irish methodology part of the teacher training course i did was all in irish so none of us understood it and would get translated notes from the one girl from the gaeltacht.
the classes were mainly grammar drills with each person doing one sentence so you'd spend the class counting how many people until your turn and then silently practising your one for fear of the sarcastic bitch teacher humiliating you in front of everyone. this is NOT the way to train people to be good irish teachers.

dont know about secondary level but the whole primary curriculum was totally revised in 1999, the emphasis now is supposed to be on enjoyment, communication, participation etc etc but its hard to see how it can be implemented unless they change the way teachers are trained too.

 

[Jerry Twig]

ha brilliant - he's trying to sneak out a big canvas behind him and he's just been snared.
'Nothin to see here folks'

 

[egg_]

Yes, and the idea is to keep it in use and further promote its use in order to re-invigorate the language and by extension the culture. That is precisely why it is worth preserving, and answers your original question.

Hmmm. Here's what I think - the Irish language no longer exists in the wild, only in zoos (schools and academia) or national parks (gaeltachts). We can try and re-introduce it to the wild, but, to be honest, I think it's an exercise in futility - and even if we did succeed, how would it benefit us? We don't need to re-invigorate the language/culture in order to express ourselves effectively, we have living culture in Ireland, it's just not in Irish anymore. Our Irish-language cultural heritage is there for us to enjoy if we care to, all we have to do is learn the language - but it's too late to bring it back to life, our society has transformed too profoundly

But the Irish poem is a unique piece of art, that is not the same piece of art when translated into English.

Yeah but - does that matter?

 

[Jerry Twig]

but it's too late to bring it back to life, our society has transformed too profoundly

Our fundamental point of departure. Let's leave it at that.

Yeah but - does that matter?

Yes, it does! Why so dismissive of something because it isn't a form of art you personally choose to explore?

Anyway, there's little doubt your attitude to Irish is the prevailing one in Ireland

 

[Scientician 0.8]

The State of Israel and the example of Hebrew is an oft-cited example of a "dead" language that was reinvigorated by government policy. However, it is not directly analogous to Irish because when the State of Israel came into being there was a huge need to have a unifying langua franca for the disparate groups that flocked to the new state. Welsh has seen a reversal of fortunes in recent years after a long decline but it has never been as depleted as Irish for native speakers.

 

[therealjohnny]

isnt the language of Israel just English spoken in an American accent?
that's the impression I got off the telly anyway