NCAD - Fine art? (1 Viewer)

[wild_cat]

Well im not to sure if i want to teach I wanted to see what I thought about it...cause I want a job at the end. I just dont want to end up like my brother who did printing management in DIT (they dont even do the course anymore, theres no work in the sector at all anymore) and be 28 , and going back to college at night to retrain while working an O2 desk job... The jeering he gets off my other two brothers one is an Engineer and the other a fruit farmer who are very sucessful... but sher isnt the youngest always meant to be the fuck up of the family anyway..

Aww sher in 6 years time I'll probaly be on boards.ie or something complaining.... about going to art college.

 

[Osama Van Halen]

Aww sher in 6 years time I'll probaly be on boards.ie or something complaining.... about going to art college.

YOU'LL BE BANNED. MCD WILL OWN AND RUN ALL THE ART COLLEGES BY THEN. CUT OUT THE MIDDLE MAN N ALL THAT.

MCAD
SPARBUCKS
Mc BANK of IRELAND - GET THE GRAPHICS GUYS ON THE CASE.

ALLAH QUANDO... 6 YEARS MATE

 

[Rachel666]

What should a portfolio entail? Could I have it finished in time even if i only did summer courses? (i'm in 5th year now) Does the year in NCAD where you try everything hard to get into? Do i have a chance of going there without doing a portfolio course?

 

[Monkey]

I was kinda appalled to find out you can do a fine art degree specialising in painting (like my brother did) and get no technical tuition in actual painting. Can you imagine studying music in university and specialising in performance, and never actually getting tuition on your instrument? It's bizarre.

You'll get some techinical tuition but most of what you need to learn can't be taught. There are a few basics technicalities but you'll get that from a book. You've got to learn through doing it. It's not like learnign a musical instrument.

 

[frona]

What should a portfolio entail? Could I have it finished in time even if i only did summer courses? (i'm in 5th year now) Does the year in NCAD where you try everything hard to get into? Do i have a chance of going there without doing a portfolio course?

It totally depends on how good you are and how much work you have to put in your portfolio but yes, of course you have a chance. I got into Limerick Art College (curse the day) after doing no portfoloio course and conversly I know people who had touble getting in even after doing them.

They like to see ideas worked through. Like it's good to have loads of different ideas and that, but things that impress them are stuff like one particular idea worked through with loads of different media, or just worked in off the wall ways. I don't know about NCAD but Limerick and Crawford still will place a lot of value on good, technical draftsmanship skills. They won't admit that but they do. That's quite good for you people doing portfolios cos drawing IS one of the few art skills that can be learned. Just practice away. Don't draw a red pepper cut in half! And if you are good at drawing and for example like painting figurative things, as soon as they get you in they force you to do abstract. If you like doing abstract, vice versa. If you like sculpture, by warned - sculpture departments won't teach you, or even allow you to make sculptures! Bastaaaaaards!


Naw, sorry lads. If ye want to do it, do it.

 

[Monkey]

profiling. generalisations.!zed

. i did a video installation for my end of year fine art degree piece of mates playing with sparklers and glowsticks with trails on the footage put to a roger doyle score. it was abstract. it was shite (they wouldnt let me do a short film. gits). still it got me a 2:1 . so what does that say about the system? !bog

Fair enough, you are shit at video art. It doesn't mean everyone else is. Bill viola, Issac Julien, and Pierre Huyghe for example are. To write off a medium is ridiculous.

I also think attacking someone else's grammar and/or spelling on the internet is pretty pathetic. Of course I didn't read over my post but it's clear that you didn't either. Anyway this is getting personal and has gone way off topic so I'll leave it there. (Oops almost wrote "their" by mistake. You'd have had a field day with that one.)

 

[Monkey]

What should a portfolio entail? Could I have it finished in time even if i only did summer courses? (i'm in 5th year now) Does the year in NCAD where you try everything hard to get into? Do i have a chance of going there without doing a portfolio course?

I'd advise you to go see the graduate shows at the different art colleges in June. this will give you the best idea of what goes on and you'll be able to make a more informed decision.

 

[carbide]

You'll get some techinical tuition but most of what you need to learn can't be taught. There are a few basics technicalities but you'll get that from a book. You've got to learn through doing it. It's not like learnign a musical instrument.

sorry, but: bollocks. intimidating, snobbish bollocks.

you can develop anyone's skills, teach them how to really see, develop their understanding of materials, point them towards precedents for their way of thinking and seeing, and help them to explore and improve their creative process. every single bit of that can be improved through exercises and challenges, with the help of good tutors. you're not teaching it from scratch because the raw material is there in everyone already, but you're facilitating the process through instruction and providing resources.

 

[wild_cat]

What should a portfolio entail? Could I have it finished in time even if i only did summer courses? (i'm in 5th year now) Does the year in NCAD where you try everything hard to get into? Do i have a chance of going there without doing a portfolio course?

It would be so cool if we went to NCAD in the same year we could just sit there jeering everyone....

 

[classic seanc]

I had my diploma got before I realised that. Feckin place. In answer to your question, art college sucks (except as a vehicle for drinking, drugs and meeting boys, or girls if you like girls) but you're not going to listen and do it anyway. If you actually want to be an art teacher you might even like art college.

I wish I had studied something more academic. But at the time I had this stupid idea that I'd shrivel up and die if I didn't express my creativity! Pah! Hanging around on the dole for months and months nearly made me shrivel up and die. Thanks art college.



John Shinnors

The flipside of that is though:
- It's easier to em....follow your heart as a 17 year old and then go do something "useful" afterwards if you have to. Compared to doing something practical and then going back to fulfil your dreams of expressing yourself creatively when you're 22/24/26. It's not impossible like, but it's harder.

-There aren't many people who will do as well in college if they're doing something for practical reasons, ie: to get a job at the end, than if they were doing something they actually like. And a good degree in something impractical is as good or better than an average degree in something "useful".

 

[dowel]

Design courses have modules of business studies/practice at NCAD. Once a week for a few terms in 4th year. In Fine Art there are some practical modules ( what a krap word) in technical procedures, such as stretching paper/canvas etc. and a really extensive amazing library on anything you fancy learning.

Basically Fine Art is more self motivated , you are left alone more. In Design you get briefs, however loose they are, it's a little more structured maybe.

It's up to you at the end of the drunken,drug-fuelled, day.

Michelle- loads of time- give it loads

 

[egg_]

You'll get some techinical tuition but most of what you need to learn can't be taught. There are a few basics technicalities but you'll get that from a book. You've got to learn through doing it. It's not like learnign a musical instrument.

you can develop anyone's skills, teach them how to really see, develop their understanding of materials, point them towards precedents for their way of thinking and seeing, and help them to explore and improve their creative process. every single bit of that can be improved through exercises and challenges, with the help of good tutors. you're not teaching it from scratch because the raw material is there in everyone already, but you're facilitating the process through instruction and providing resources.

What carbide said ... I'm just talking about painting now, I know nothing about installations or the like, but painting is like learning a musical instrument. There are certain skills which you have to master to get proficient at it, and you can get better and better over years and years. To create Art via painting is something different, obviously, and you can do so without being an accomplished painter, same as you can write a good tune without being able to play piano BUT if you're studying painting in at a high level (like you are in University) I would expect there to be ongoing technical tuition. My sister-in-law is doing music in Trinity and as part of her composition modules studies things like counterpoint, orchestration and keyboard skills - my brother did fine art in Mountjoy Square and didn't know anything about mixing oil paints (his medium of choice) with linseed oil until he was in his 3rd year and even then he learned about it from my wife who was doing a painting course in the local VEC

In fairness though I don't know how regularly he used to go in to college

 

[Corey]

In as far as i know, apart from carbides mention of ways of seeing; and eggs reference to practical matters such as canvas stretching and the like, i have'nt come across any artists who can actually say they 'were taught how to paint' in college. You're given an intro into the basic mediums but thats it.

Countless established irish fine artists do not endorse art college for fine art practice, Brian Bourke, Pauline Buick, even le brocquey has admitted that college was more of a 'work space' thatn 'a place of learning'. Art college all the way for other creative disciplines, but not fine art. S'ayin.

 

[Monkey]

sorry, but: bollocks. intimidating, snobbish bollocks.

you can develop anyone's skills, teach them how to really see, develop their understanding of materials, point them towards precedents for their way of thinking and seeing, and help them to explore and improve their creative process. every single bit of that can be improved through exercises and challenges, with the help of good tutors. you're not teaching it from scratch because the raw material is there in everyone already, but you're facilitating the process through instruction and providing resources.

My point is not that you should be given no direction but that sometimes people have this idea that painting is a load of techniques that you get taught and if you learn them then you know how to paint but its not like that. There should be some tuition at the beginning of art college (and there is in my experience) but as you advance most of the learning happens through practical work on your own coupled with discussions afterwards rather than classes or lectures. I don't think that's snobbish maybe it is intimidating, I'm not saying its easy (to make real progress I'm not just talking about getting a good mark in art college).

 

[Monkey]

my brother did fine art in Mountjoy Square and didn't know anything about mixing oil paints (his medium of choice) with linseed oil until he was in his 3rd year and even then he learned about it from my wife who was doing a painting course in the local VEC

In fairness though I don't know how regularly he used to go in to college

I did learn how to mix oil paints with linseed oil in the same college. They do teach these things.

 

[ICUH8N]

Art college all the way for other creative disciplines, but not fine art. S'ayin.

Bullllllllllshit.
It's about about filling one's "intellectual toolbox", being in a creative environment, networking, being exposed to other people who have similar ideas to you and completely different ideas to you, and it's also about learning.
Pointing at a few artists and saying "they said it was crap blabla" is not a valid argument no matter which way you slice it.
Stop projecting.
Tuck it in.
Sharpen up, for fuck's sake.

 

[Hair Iron Madin]

Bullllllllllshit.
It's about about filling one's "intellectual toolbox", being in a creative environment, networking, being exposed to other people who have similar ideas to you and completely different ideas to you, and it's also about learning.
Pointing at a few artists and saying "they said it was crap blabla" is not a valid argument no matter which way you slice it.
Stop projecting.
Tuck it in.
Sharpen up, for fuck's sake.

ssssssssssscathing. i like it.

i would agree with all your points except networking. doesnt exist in most colleges as they lack the foresight to introduce you to a business accumen until days before you leave the cocoon of the college courtyard. such a pity. had a meeting with the revenue in my degree to talk with us about artists exemption. they couldnt give me an answer when i pressed them about artists using film as a medium also being exempt on sales and materials. idiots.

the funniest bit was when some seasoned fine art head started to huff and puff about selling out when people take commissions or get the opportunity to mass produce their work (print). I casually asked where she intended to get the money to eat/pay rent and how she would actually manage to elevate her work and her status in the art world if she didnt 'sell out' once in a while.

 

[Corey]

Bullllllllllshit.
It's about about filling one's "intellectual toolbox", being in a creative environment, networking, being exposed to other people who have similar ideas to you and completely different ideas to you, and it's also about learning.
Pointing at a few artists and saying "they said it was crap blabla" is not a valid argument no matter which way you slice it.
Stop projecting.
Tuck it in.
Sharpen up, for fuck's sake.

OOOOF!!!

Like i said, in so far as i know. I'm well interested in the merits/levels/methods of proffesional tution when it comes to visual art, and try and compare and contrast as much as i can. Opinion is didvided straight down the middle; you're seen either as disadvantaged without it, or at an advantage because you never took it on. Obviously you know where i stand on it, and that itself is merely my gunner-eyed and uneducated feeling ; but do you really think it's essential? Do bear in mind the standard of your photography work.

Most of the faculties these courses provide regarding fine art practices and interpretation are lost in translation somewhat, resulting in most students eventually gaining a degree in "complete and utter confusion"; and 'ways of seeing and doing' is a process that requires some level of instruction, but not neccessarily 3/4 years of college.

I'm not generalising though, while i found it an issue in NCAD and in some cases IADT, the likes of DIT and crawford college students seem to be pretty sharp.

I love you, by the way.

 

[Hair Iron Madin]

I love you, by the way.

stop the small talk back to the quarrelling

 

[Osama Van Halen]

I love you, by the way.

YEAH... HAIRSTEEL'S RIGHT. HE USED THE WORDS 'INTELLECTUAL TOOLBOX'. THAT'S FIGHTIN' TALK. TOO MUCH LOVE.