Music nowadays is shit: Discuss. (2 Viewers)

[ann post]

This is the equivalent of saying all films should make you happy and entertain you, when the fact is that some of the greatest films ever made do the exact opposite of that and are brilliant because of it.

no it isn't. film and music are not the same thing. very few people dance to films. or drive or walk to them. music is for one sense, film is for at least 2 (arguably people like the ambience of cinemas or big screens and munchies for movies). people will listen to music while taking a shit. people will listen to music on sweatshop headphones while they wouldn't dare watch a movie on anything less than a 27 inch screen.

different worlds.

 

[washingcattle]

no it isn't. film and music are not the same thing. very few people dance to films. or drive or walk to them. music is for one sense, film is for at least 2 (arguably people like the ambience of cinemas or big screens and munchies for movies). people will listen to music while taking a shit. people will listen to music on sweatshop headphones while they wouldn't dare watch a movie on anything less than a 27 inch screen.

different worlds.

What the hell are you talking about ? Of course they're different but the attitude that music should "shake" you and that that is all you want from it is exactly the same as wanting one thing from films.

 

[ann post]

is exactly the same as wanting one thing from films.

films are about an hour and half long narratives with visual and audio emotional triggers. if people get an hour and a half long narrative with visual and audio triggers then 90% of the time they are happy. films are things you are likely by and large to only repeat watch a few times over your life span.

music is about 3 minutes long and leaves the visual and emotional imagination largely open, and also can trigger movement. it is a lot more sensitive to moods and locations.

the parameters are so different that the only real thing they have in common is that they were distributed on similar discs for a few years. I'm saying the comparison is shit and not worth responding to because the artistic mediums are so far apart in terms of human perception.

 

[washingcattle]

films are about an hour and half long narratives with visual and audio emotional triggers. if people get an hour and a half long narrative with visual and audio triggers then 90% of the time they are happy. films are things you are likely by and large to only repeat watch a few times over your life span.

music is about 3 minutes long and leaves the visual and emotional imagination largely open, and also can trigger movement. it is a lot more sensitive to moods and locations.

the parameters are so different that the only real thing they have in common is that they were distributed on similar discs for a few years. I'm saying the comparison is shit and not worth responding to because the artistic mediums are so far apart in terms of human perception.

Again you're missing the point.

The quote was that he wanted music to "shake" him and didn't care who made it. There fore he wanted music which accomplishes one task i.e the "shaking"

I said that that was the equivilent of demanding only one thing from a film.

Some music which I genuinely love depress the fuck out of me, others could barely be classed as music given that it's completely abstract works of sound rather than descernable structure or rhythm I mean you couldn't dance to it for example.

I demand more than just one thing from the music I listen to that's the comparison I was making.

 

[ann post]

I'm not missing the point. i just think it has no worth and that comparing movies and music doesn't have any like for like qualities. he didn't define music genre or style so its entirely possible he has all the favorite same tunes as you and just describes how this happened differently to you and that has made you angry, but it doesn't mean you have a point.

 

[Diumraid]

The comparison of music to movies is a poetic one; that they are completely different things is a matter of fact but it is, I would say, the pointless point of the two. Much like saying a fast car is different from a speeding bullet in all kinds of important ways.

 

[nlgbbbblth]

while they wouldn't dare watch a movie on anything less than a 27 inch screen.

.

aside from the hipsters who proudly announce that they don't own a television.

 

[Squiggle]

Ok, so not now... but QTOSA No One Knows... awsome! Haven't listened to it for ages but first bars = instant cheeek to cheek grin on the shittiest day for ages!

 

[washingcattle]

I'm not missing the point. i just think it has no worth and that comparing movies and music doesn't have any like for like qualities. he didn't define music genre or style so its entirely possible he has all the favorite same tunes as you and just describes how this happened differently to you and that has made you angry, but it doesn't mean you have a point.

I'm not angry that you've missed the point of what I was saying i'm just beleaguered by your inability to see how you've missed the point.

I wasn't even talking directly about film I was talking about an attitude towards film.

Sheeeesh.

 

[ann post]

I'm not angry that you've missed the point of what I was saying i'm just beleaguered by your inability to see how you've missed the point.

You are angry because you don't like someone else's description of their relationship with music. I haven't missed anything, i've heard it all before and it has no value.

 

[Diumraid]

You are angry because you don't like someone else's description of their relationship with music. I haven't missed anything, i've heard it all before and it has no value.

I've read back and I've not picked up any positive description of a relationship with music, except whatever's inferred by all the negation - can you elaborate?

 

[ann post]

I've read back and I've not picked up any positive description of a relationship with music, except whatever's inferred by all the negation - can you elaborate?

Read back again? egg just wants the music to shake him.

I don't think that needs elaboration or analysis. It just is what it is, unless its our job to explain to people how and why they should enjoy things.

 

[Diumraid]

Read back again? egg just wants the music to shake him.

I don't think that needs elaboration or analysis. It just is what it is, unless its our job to explain to people how and why they should enjoy things.

If someone wants to tell me how to experience something in a different way I'd be glad to listen, there's an aspirational side to engaging with artforms and while I don't think we need all of our experiences mediated by gurus or experts, I do think there's always room for coaching and mindblowing. The above just sounds like the very depressing idea that no-one can tell anyone anything anymore - each to his own in his own little bubble. Other than 'I like what I like' - I'm not getting much from that line of thought.

 

[ann post]

These are the things the music is supposed to do. Unless you are an A1 talker/explainer you are not going to get into peoples synapsisis in the same way.

 

[washingcattle]

Read back again? egg just wants the music to shake him.

I don't think that needs elaboration or analysis. It just is what it is, unless its our job to explain to people how and why they should enjoy things.

Just, that's the operative word here, that was my point all along.

Like I said if you Just wanted movies to entertain you you'd be missing out on a whole gamut of films, equally if you just wanted music that shook you, then you'd miss out on a whole load of music that perhaps didn't "shake" you but had other qualities.

 

[Diumraid]

These are the things the music is supposed to do. Unless you are an A1 talker/explainer you are not going to get into peoples synapsisis in the same way.

This doesn't make a lick of sense. Is the world entirely static? Doesn't anything grow? Don't people move into new things that previously would have been too challenging for whatever reason? One good question can break-through all kinds of barriers and no, it doesn't need to be left to the experts.. The moment might be a musical object lesson or it might be verbal - the two are generally hand-in-glove. My own experience of musical community does not involve people mutely pointing to the stereo - generally they're excited about an idea, they talk without being in any way qualified, an exchange happens and things grow.

 

[Diumraid]

Just, that's the operative word here, that was my point all along.

Like I said if you Just wanted movies to entertain you you'd be missing out on a whole gamut of films, equally if you just wanted music that shook you, then you'd miss out on a whole load of music that perhaps didn't "shake" you but had other qualities.

It's probably unfair to reduce that statement to something like wanting to live entirely on jam sandwiches. I think @egg_ 's point is against cerebralising. I'm guessing he's putting a visceral appreciation of art over a cerebral one.

 

[washingcattle]

It's probably unfair to reduce that statement to something like wanting to live entirely on jam sandwiches. I think @egg_ 's point is against cerebralising. I'm guessing he's putting a visceral appreciation of art over a cerebral one.

To each their own but for me that's hugely problematic. Hence the movie comparison rather than the jam sandwich one.

Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with entertaining movies, or music that makes you shake.

You know when you meet those people who say things like

"I really like comedy, I don't understand how people watch things like Raging Bull, Like why bother depressing yourself that way, Ya know"

Or musically

"I like everything, so long as it's metal"

And you just think to yourself you are missing out.


Oh and hand jam sandwiches for every meal ? Like breakfast ? I mean come on man that's deranged.

 

[egg_]

I think @egg_ 's point is against cerebralising. I'm guessing he's putting a visceral appreciation of art over a cerebral one.

You're guessing correctly

Dancing is one of my favourite things in the world, but I don't only listen to music that makes me dance. By "shake me" I meant ... well, move me in some way. I don't care who made the music, or why, or about the technicalities of the recording or the harmonic structure, or whatever. I just wanna be turned to dust

(well, I am little bit curious about those things, but without the visceral subjective experience of the art itself then everything else is irrelevant)

 

[egg_]

... though having said all that, perhaps I am the sort of person washingcattle is railing against. In the last few years I'm no longer interested in depressing shit - I have of course watched Raging Bull, read Ana Karenina etc, but that was when I was younger. I gave up on Breaking Bad, for example, cos it was bringing me down. Maybe it's a phase I'l get over eventually, who knows