Michael Moore (2 Viewers)

[Rogue]

Cos then what I would have said was:
By your own logic aren't you guilty of thinking of pro-lifers as just 'pro-lifers' and not 'people'? Isn't it insulting and de-humanising to them to assume that their real agenda is control over women's bodies rather than genuine concern for the lives of things-that-will-become-human-if-no-action-is-taken? Well?

Sorry egg but that smacks a bit of sophistry, while i agree with most of what you've been saying, that's not really central to the argument. Besides, calling one'self pro-anything is someone choosing to define themselves, women are obviously defined biologically and don't have a choice in this (transvestitism aside) so legislation of this nature is emotive by defining what a woman should or shouldn't be/do.

This is the same as any other legislative argument: two groups (and the vast grey area between them) want to be right and they can't both be, it can never be resolved without a sea change of opinion on one side.

 

[Goodbye]

And so what if they get preachy - pro-choicers are just as fucking preachy.

opinionated yeah, but preachy!! come on...
I'm my experiance with pro life'rs (which to be honest aint that much) it's all God this and God that and that just really fucks me off... Any people who rely on "catholic guilt" as their wepon of choice can get fucked... I know I'm crassly generolising, but I doubt I'd be wrong in saying that the most part of prolifers are also of a similar die hard god squad (apologys if I offend anyone) but it's far to Oliver North-esqe for my taist...

 

[Rogue]

Isn't it insulting and de-humanising to them to assume that their real agenda is control over women's bodies rather than genuine concern for the lives of things-that-will-become-human-if-no-action-is-taken? Well?

Oops, only replied to half your point last time

Aren't those the same thing in the long run? effect 'n'cause!...(affect?)

 

[roxy]

Egg - I have to admire your stamina as regards arguments!

Seriously, others would just get bored and wander off.

I don't just mean this thread, I mean in general.

You the dude.

 

[egg_]

Aren't those the same thing in the long run? effect 'n'cause!...(affect?)

Well, kinda. Like you say none of this is central to the pro-choice vs pro-life argument, but I think that the two sides' (erroneous) perception of each other's so-called 'real agenda' is a big part of what makes the whole debate so thorny, cos it makes it very difficult for each side to see the validity in the others' arguments

 

[egg_]

Egg - I have to admire your stamina as regards arguments!

Seriously, others would just get bored and wander off.

I don't just mean this thread, I mean in general.

You the dude.

Aww shucks
You should hear the continuous arguments inside my head ...
I just love this sort of conversation, that's all

 

[Rogue]

Well, kinda. Like you say none of this is central to the pro-choice vs pro-life argument, but I think that the two sides' (erroneous) perception of each other's so-called 'real agenda' is a big part of what makes the whole debate so thorny, cos it makes it very difficult for each side to see the validity in the others' arguments

Tis hard alright to argue this; where's the line between The Pro-Life Campaign and a person who would call themselves pro-life (or pro-choice vice-versa stylee), the political and personal agendas are way too tangled, the good of the person or the good of the people...no-one likes to be dictated to.!ninjaaaa
Both arguments are watertight valid...if you look at it from their point of view...

Time to go home...pick this up in the morning.

 

[spectraljanitor]

Tis hard alright to argue this; where's the line between The Pro-Life Campaign and a person who would call themselves pro-life (or pro-choice vice-versa stylee), the political and personal agendas are way too tangled, the good of the person or the good of the people...no-one likes to be dictated to.!ninjaaaa

i am anti-life and pro-death.
its a lifestyle choice.

 

[egg_]

Time to go home...pick this up in the morning.

If I don't chip in it's cos I've the day off, not cos I don't care
Just so you know

 

[Goodbye]

ya me too!

still, how sad is it to have a day off and be on the internet discussing abortion issues when we could have been down the pub the whole time... sheesh

 

[nlgbbbblth]

I think this is trite bullshit

Here, as far as I can make out, are the pro-choice and pro-life arguments.

Pro-choice:
Those who are most affected by a decision are those who should get the most say in that decision. The persons who are most affected by the decision whether or not to continue with a pregnancy are the mother and the zygote/foetus/baby, but the z/f/b cannot communicate, therefore it is up to the mother to choose for both of them

yeah ultimately it's the woman's body etc but what about the father?

I would consider myself pro-choice:

 

[Goodbye]

yeah ultimately it's the woman's body etc but what about the father?

Can... open... worms... everywhere...

 

[#10-7]

i can't believe i missed this....
anyway, i think the reason there is so much debate over this is that there are moral and logical reasons for belonging to both sides...

 

[stunning]

I just don't like how the same people who want to tell a woman what to do with her body usually seems to be the same people who feel it is ok to legislate what I, as a Queer person, can (read 'should') do with MINE.

If I support laws against a woman's right to own her body, how can I SCREAM when someone passes a law saying that fucking my boyfriend (or Yours) is a criminal act.

I can't. I must add that this is NOT what I base my support for a woman's right to reproductive freedom. It is just one more dimension to illustrate how the religious based fear mongers continue to strive achieve social control.

Thomas

ps. Tell your friends we have a room! Thanks.