JULIA LASAGNE (1 Viewer)

[ann post]

i assume a fair few of you's have heard of wikileaks and all that jazz - our friend julia has just been issued a warrant on behalf of sweden in the uk. john snow thinks he will end up in the USA over the head of it.

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[тхеодоре кацзынски]

the whole thing stinks,people calling for his assassination and what not,ridiculous.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...release-damaging-secrets-killed-arrested.html

don't see what grounds the us can prosecute him under?

 

[ann post]

that thomas jefferson quote was never so relevant:

"If I had to choose between government without newspapers, and newspapers without government, I wouldn't hesitate to choose the latter."

I've read about 20 articles on it the past few days; main points:

A: he's australian, so its not treason
B: swedish rape law states that having consentual sex without a condom is technically rape - this is the rape charge the ex CIA lady is putting up against him.
C: journalists are shitting themselves because someone is doing what they were supposed to be doing all along.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

True.
Though they can execute the fucker tomorrow if it will get the internets to shut up about him.
The level of fawning adoration among the reddit/4chan classes is nauseating.

What has actually been achieved, I can see the value in the Afghan and Iraq leaks, even though they really only put flesh on what everyone already knew, but leaking the diplomatic cables served absolutely no purpose.

All of the high minded justifications aside, I can't escape the feeling that he is nothing but a troll.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

B: swedish rape law states that having consentual sex without a condom is technically rape - this is the rape charge the ex CIA lady is putting up against him.

I don't think this is true.
My understanding from what I can piece together from the shitty reporting, and what seems plausible, is that he was doing the wild thing and the french letter broke, the lady in question, very reasonably, asked for a halt to proceedings to sort the matter out, and lasagne battered on regardless.

This is rape in any country, not just Sweden, and I'm not sure where all this bareback = rape reporting is coming from.

And there seems to be two very similar incidents, the second with another girl where the condom came off and he was a bit remiss in communicating the fact.

C: journalists are shitting themselves because someone is doing what they were supposed to be doing all along.

Yeah, this is the irritating fact, investigative journalism is dying a death. Newspapers will queue up for priority access to leaks of matters they should be winkling out for themselves.

 

[ann post]

the shannon leaks are pretty much all we need discuss. I'm not too fussed on the personality cult around julia, i'm a lot more interested in the free press element of it all.

shannon bits:

the close relationship between the US embassy and Fianna Fáil officials
that a senior government official dismissed the Shannon Five acquittal as “bizarre”, assuring the US that the verdict did not reflect government policy
how dependent Shannon Airport was on the revenue from the US flights
that the government had tried to guarantee the continuation of US flights at Shannon, in the face of public criticism
that Russia used Ireland as a stop-off point in the transfer of military goods to Venezuela
how the United States commended the government’s refusal to pursue “inadvertant breaches of weapons and uniform policies”

The United States had objected to that ruling, and had considered either launching a civil case to pursue damages from the five activists, or presenting…
…an itemized bill for aircraft damages to the Irish Government, either to seek compensation outright or, atleast, to convey [US Government] dissatisfaction with the Shannon Five verdict.
Kenny implies, however, that the government had privately wanted to keep operating the flights, mentioning that government ministers had questioned the Shannon Five ruling and had “consistently [...] acted to ensure continued US military transits at Shannon in the face of public criticism”.

Avoiding damage to Fianna Fáil

Washington was wary of causing political damage to the government, with Kenny noting that:
Any incident, however, that becomes the cause for a public debate about the U.S. use of Shannon will likely add pressure on the Government [...] Against this political backdrop, U.S. missteps at Shannon could easily become campaign grist, a Fianna Fail concern that mid-level [Department of Foreign Affairs] officials have citedin informal discussions.
While Ireland’s new rules were “designed to give the Irish government more latitude to decide on allowable transits”, privately the government had wanted to maintain the “diplomatic benefits” and the “significant revenues fpr the airport and regional economy”.

all taken from journal.ie 01/12/2010

 

[Mormon Nailer]

I read those, there is nothing in them that I didn't already know, in fact FF comes out of it slightly better than I had originally thought and seem to have been slightly less chummy than I previously believed. I always thought that the Irish government were deliberately turning a blind eye to equipment transports which does not completely seem to have been the case. Also I never knew they blocked transport to Israel.

 

[ann post]

I don't think this is true.
My understanding from what I can piece together from the shitty reporting, and what seems plausible, is that he was doing the wild thing and the french letter broke, the lady in question, very reasonably, asked for a halt to proceedings to sort the matter out, and lasagne battered on regardless.

This is rape in any country, not just Sweden, and I'm not sure where all this bareback = rape reporting is coming from.

And there seems to be two very similar incidents, the second with another girl where the condom came off and he was a bit remiss in communicating the fact.
.

i was more or less referring to this with what i was saying there:

http://progressivealaska.blogspot.com/2010/12/how-much-do-you-know-about-rape-case.html

if its wrong tis wrong, you might have read something more reliable/sourced.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

i was more or less referring to this with what i was saying there:

http://progressivealaska.blogspot.com/2010/12/how-much-do-you-know-about-rape-case.html

if its wrong tis wrong, you might have read something more reliable/sourced.

Yeah, that doesn't seem to tally with the more reliable reporting.

Sorry I can't point you to where I got my story from, the internet is so awash with Assange at the moment it's hard to remember where.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

According to accounts the women gave to the police and friends, they each had consensual sexual encounters with Mr. Assange that became nonconsensual. One woman said that Mr. Assange had ignored her appeals to stop after a condom broke. The other woman said that she and Mr. Assange had begun a sexual encounter using a condom, but that Mr. Assange did not comply with her appeals to stop when it was no longer in use. Mr. Assange has questioned the veracity of those accounts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/19/world/europe/19assange.html

 

[ann post]

the internet is so awash with Assange at the moment it's hard to remember where.

fair enough. do you browse 4chan?? i think i've only been on it once.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

No, not much. It can be very very funny, but I find the layout a chore.

 

[ann post]

What has actually been achieved, I can see the value in the Afghan and Iraq leaks, even though they really only put flesh on what everyone already knew, but leaking the diplomatic cables served absolutely no purpose.

I wonder about this - will it lower conscription, lower support for that mission at ground level??

Yeah, this is the irritating fact, investigative journalism is dying a death. Newspapers will queue up for priority access to leaks of matters they should be winkling out for themselves.

its probably still the main thing isnt it. whatever war/money/etc that everyone thought anyways, and now can confirm through data - its really showing up journalists in a big way - i'd say now they could be splitting into two camps 'pro lasagne / anti lasagne' - maybe that makes em worse than they were before the had news handed to them on a plate, splitting the demographic into two rather than reporting properly.

 

[SomethingManic]

I love Wikileaks.
Fair play to them for messing with the most powerful people in the world.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

I wonder about this - will it lower conscription, lower support for that mission at ground level??

I don't know, I think if anything was to do this it would have been the helicopter leak, though it really doesn't seem to have move public perception (in the US at least) by much. We see enough war porn these days it's difficult to be jolted out of our stupor anymore. I think CNN coverage of the start of Gulf War 1 was the beginning of a systematic habituation of everyone to the horror of war.

Take the Mexican drug war, I follow the news very closely, but at this point the sight of another decapitated corpse is no big deal. It takes an awful lot for me to get upset. There is just this background radiation of horror and you get a bit numb to it. (The last time I got freaked out was the report about the girls in Juarez - there have be 400 girls, abducted, raped, tortured and dismembered in a city with roughly the same population as Dublin)

its probably still the main thing isnt it. whatever war/money/etc that everyone thought anyways, and now can confirm through data - its really showing up journalists in a big way - i'd say now they could be splitting into two camps 'pro lasagne / anti lasagne' - maybe that makes em worse than they were before the had news handed to them on a plate, splitting the demographic into two rather than reporting properly.

I constantly think was there anything in the Iraq leak that couldn't have been learned from careful, assiduous reporting - and I really don't think there was.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

so he's wanted for 'sex by surprise'.it seems the worst punishment he can get is a 5,000 kronor fine.

http://www.aolnews.com/world/articl...art-of-julian-assange-criminal-probe/19741444

 

[nooleen]

someone has to be taking the piss...

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Bear in mind that is coming from his attorney, not from the prosecution, and most of the silly "it's just a crime in Sweden" muddying of the water I have seem are ultimately quoting Lassange's legal team.

 

[nooleen]

Bear in mind that is coming from his attorney, not from the prosecution

well isn't that largely the point, that the prosecution are entirely unclear in saying what they're actually doing, or what it is that he's being charged with (or not)?

 

[taubstumm]

what happens if assange gets locked up for a couple of years but wikileaks just carries on like before? it's not like it's just him. if anything, wikileaks would make much more sense as an organisation if it didn't have a lone-ranger, alleged-rapist figurehead hogging the limelight.