Jim Carroll's article about Live Nation take over (3 Viewers)

[Mormon Nailer]

I don't think the wallmart comparasion is really valid. Regardless of the gulf in size Wall Mart are in direct competition with all those mom and pop stores that they close - and they have huge economies of scale over them as well.

The big promoters aren't really interested in the portion of the market represented by collectives and the like - an they is no way they can run a gig any cheaper than a collective or indie promoter can.

So there is not really direct competition.

 

[c0De_n1NjA]

market market market. competition competition competition. competitiveness competitiveness competitiveness. good for the consumer good for the consumer good for the consumer.

tescos new slogan

 

[Stereobaby]

Whats going to be the story with Vicar St. now if Live Nation are now to manage it. With Vicar St. being traditionally an Aiken venue and with Live Nation potentially becoming a majority stakeholder in MCD.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

tescos new slogan

The new Tesco in limerick has the exact same layout and the same Grey/Blue/Red design as a wallmart supercentre. Very unsettling.

 

[Wobbler]

I don't think the wallmart comparasion is really valid. Regardless of the gulf in size Wall Mart are in direct competition with all those mom and pop stores that they close - and they have huge economies of scale over them as well.

The big promoters aren't really interested in the portion of the market represented by collectives and the like - an they is no way they can run a gig any cheaper than a collective or indie promoter can.

So there is not really direct competition.

Well these days it makes it even less likely for a worthwhile band to perform to a wider audience without compromising their integrity.

If this shower take control of the radio stations as well as all the medium and large venues, all bands playing to a niche audience will continue to do so even if they have broader appeal.

 

[Wobbler]

can you validate this statement

"Greater competition provides good value for consumers, stimulates business and enhances the economy as a whole."

in the context of this discussion,...

What's your point, broken arm?

 

[Franco]

Whats going to be the story with Vicar St. now if Live Nation are now to manage it. With Vicar St. being traditionally an Aiken venue and with Live Nation potentially becoming a majority stakeholder in MCD.

Crosbie said before to Hot Press it'll be run the same way it has always been run.

Live Nation have a management contract to run The Point. They’ll also be running the new theatre that we’re building in Hanover Quay. That’ll all come under Mike Adamson’s (Live Nation Ireland boss) brief. And the same will apply to Vicar St. The acts for Vicar Street will be booked by Aiken Promotions. That’s the same as it always was.

 

[broken arm]

What's your point, broken arm?

i wanted to have a discussion on 'competition' and unpick the vagueness of language used by public agencies.

 

[Wobbler]

i wanted to have a discussion on 'competition' and unpick the vagueness of language used by public agencies.

Right, I think the quote from their website is self evidently true. I'm wondering if you're disputng the need for a competition authority or (like me) whether you think a competition authority should do alot more breaking up of monopoly power.

 

[broken arm]

Right, I think the quote from their website is self evidently true. I'm wondering if you're disputng the need for a competition authority or (like me) whether you think a competition authority should do alot more breaking up of monopoly power.

i don't think it is self-evidently true but i'm not disputing anything yet. I find the causality of competition and innovation very unclear (i'm not an economist) and I have just been in a number of conversations recently where the competition paradigm is being challenged. A level playing field is good but what happens within that field is important....

The phsycology of competition in business embeds secrecy, lack of trust and lack of co-operation which in themselves are barriers to innovation.

 

[Jim A. Morrish]

i think live nation will be running the new conference centre/gig venue in cork (when it's built)

 

[Wobbler]

i don't think it is self-evidently true but i'm not disputing anything yet. I find the causality of competition and innovation very unclear (i'm not an economist) and I have just been in a number of conversations recently where the competition paradigm is being challenged. A level playing field is good but what happens within that field is important....

The phsycology of competition in business embeds secrecy, lack of trust and lack of co-operation which in themselves are barriers to innovation.

Ok, well I'm probably considerably less well informed than you but even if competition isn't necessairly a good thing surely the absence of competition (monopoly) is alweays a bad thing.

 

[potlatch]

What companies tell people: "Competition is good"
What companies tell themselves: "Competition is bad"

I think that second article posted puts it pretty well:

The arrival of the Live Nation behemoth on the scene will certainly increase already keen competition among rival promoters in the Irish marketplace for acts for standalone shows and festivals.

But as such competition tends to inflate the fees paid to artists, this will inevitably lead to higher ticket prices as the promoter seeks to recoup costs.

Basically: competition = higher prices. Uh, whaaaaa???

And even if Live Nation start making more on sponsorship to keep ticket prices down, people will lose even more because the space for other people/companies to do shit will dissappear.

Fuck that.

 

[Jim A. Morrish]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/b...&ex=1207108800&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print

 

[lympog]

Basically: competition = higher prices. Uh, whaaaaa???

it's quite simple really - with more big promoters like LiveNation around, bigger artists can start bidding wars with regards to festival/concert fees, etc...
The fee ends up getting passed onto the consumer

 

[Bren.Manazo]

Its seems that the general consensus on thumped is that in this particular case competition doesnt help lower prices but infact might have the opposite effect of inflating them and that it might not promote competition in any case but instead lead to something approaching a monopoly.

At this early stage I dont know if I agree or disagree with this thesis to be honest.
I just know that in general big companies tend to squeeze out the smaller operators.............

 

[Unicron]

I just know that in general big companies tend to squeeze out the smaller operators.............

The independent promotors here seem to be in a stronger position right now then they have in years and years.

 

[Bren.Manazo]

The independent promotors here seem to be in a stronger position right now then they have in years and years.

Agreed, Im not overly pessimistic about this development to be honest, just pointing out how big companies tend to operate.

 

[RSJ]

When they were operating as part of clear channel in the US they bought up so many venues that bands of a certain size (say, music center size) couldn't play certain states without going through clear channel. I'd be much more worried about them buying up all the venues than taking all the bands, cos once they have the venues, they have the bands.

 

[Bren.Manazo]

When they were operating as part of clear channel in the US they bought up so many venues that bands of a certain size (say, music center size) couldn't play certain states without going through clear channel. I'd be much more worried about them buying up all the venues than taking all the bands, cos once they have the venues, they have the bands.

Surely that would qualify as a monopoly situation.
Hopefully (wont hold my breath) the powers that be wouldnt allow a situation like that to develop in Ireland.......