Ireland (11 Viewers)

[JohnnyRaz]

is that the capucin place?

Yeah.
As I understand there was earth from the holy land in the crypt, so all the notables wanted to be buried there. And one day one of the friars got all blue Peter with the corpses

 

[magicbastarder]

blindboy posted this, ref the fire in michan's, and pointed out that the remains in question are pre-christian.

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there is an obvious dichotomy there, if they shouldn't be shared on social media because they're human remains, what makes them special?
i've no idea whether the footage shows horseplay by archaeologists or someone having broken into the site at night, say, and interfering with a dig. given the garda involvement, i suspect it's more likely to be the latter.

I suspect this is the site:

Calls to preserve human remains at DLS site

DUBLIN City Council have been asked to ensure the preservation of archaeological finds including that of human remains at the De La Salle site in Ballyfermot.Dwyer Nolan Developments Ltd are building a development for 927 residential units, in blocks up to a height of 13 storeys, at the site of...

www.echo.ie

 

[therealjohnny]

The online discourse surrounding the Natasha O'Brien story by the Irish patriots is shocking and depressing.

It quickly turned from solidarity to "What about protests about foreign men who assault women?" to "I would buy Cathal Crotty a pint".

I know X/Twitter isn't exactly representative of the majority but still. Cunts.

 

[Deadmanposting]

The online discourse surrounding the Natasha O'Brien story by the Irish patriots is shocking and depressing.

It quickly turned from solidarity to "What about protests about foreign men who assault women?" to "I would buy Cathal Crotty a pint".

I know X/Twitter isn't exactly representative of the majority but still. Cunts.

Everyone uses it as grist for their mill - digging down deeper into their own positions.

Some lad on my feed saying everyone in his local asylum centre are better people than Cathal Crotty.
Another one with a sign saying Queers For Natasha.

No one learns anything really. No one wants to.

 

[egg_]

No one learns anything really. No one wants to.

Most people don't want to. Curiosity does exist

Mrs. egg_ pointed out to me the other day that a fella called Cillian McCarthy got beaten up (fractured eye socket) in an unprovoked attack by someone called Kyle Hayes (Clare hurler) a couple of years ago, and Kyle Hayes got a suspended sentence. No protests on behalf of poor oul Cillian.

Obvs I wouldn't post this on twitter cos all the morons would be delighted and everyone else would think I'd taken the red pill ... but I do think it kind of illuminates something about gender roles. We think a physical assault on a woman is worse than a physical assault on a man, regardless of the harm done. I'm including myself in this btw - if some randomer beat up Mrs. egg_ I'd feel like that was worse than them beating me up. One of these baked-in cultural (or biological) things I suppose

 

[Deadmanposting]

Most people don't want to. Curiosity does exist

Mrs. egg_ pointed out to me the other day that a fella called Cillian McCarthy got beaten up (fractured eye socket) in an unprovoked attack by someone called Kyle Hayes (Clare hurler) a couple of years ago, and Kyle Hayes got a suspended sentence. No protests on behalf of poor oul Cillian.

Obvs I wouldn't post this on twitter cos all the morons would be delighted and everyone else would think I'd taken the red pill ... but I do think it kind of illuminates something about gender roles. We think a physical assault on a woman is worse than a physical assault on a man, regardless of the harm done. I'm including myself in this btw - if some randomer beat up Mrs. egg_ I'd feel like that was worse than them beating me up. One of these baked-in cultural (or biological) things I suppose

I should have qualified that I was talking specifically about those platforms, not curiosity in the world

But yeah, no space for that kind of commentary like that from your good wife. All anyone's doing is poistioning themselves on top of the moral highground and demonising everyone on the other side.

Men and women are robbed of different things when they are beaten up by men. It's traumatic for both.
Not sure where I'd start to put a hierarchy on it. Can't even think if it should be taken into account in sentencing.

It's godawful what was done to that woman obviously.

I'd say the hullaballoo is gonna get a an appeal. Your man's going to jail for sure now.

 

[magicbastarder]

I suspect the wrinkle that it was a soldier was one of the reasons this got so much coverage.

 

[Deadmanposting]

I suspect the wrinkle that it was a soldier was one of the reasons this got so much coverage.

Like that he was a trained fighter?

Or teh armed forces are a symbol of misogyny/patriarchy?

 

[magicbastarder]

Bit of everything. He's supposed to be a trusted 'officer of the state' but used state provided training to beat the woman. And the state let him walk.

 

[egg_]

Your man's going to jail for sure now.

I wouldn't bet on it. I read (or listened to maybe) a legal analysis of it where the guy was saying - if someone is not already a criminal then a conviction does an awful lot of damage to their life, even if the sentence is suspended. Actually going to jail more or less destroys you socially, and only makes sense if you're actually dangerous, and if someone has only done something violent once then it's hard to say for sure if they're actually dangerous

 

[Deadmanposting]

I wouldn't bet on it. I read (or listened to maybe) a legal analysis of it where the guy was saying - if someone is not already a criminal then a conviction does an awful lot of damage to their life, even if the sentence is suspended. Actually going to jail more or less destroys you socially, and only makes sense if you're actually dangerous, and if someone has only done something violent once then it's hard to say for sure if they're actually dangerous

Fair enough

But it is quite the hullaballoo
Eddie Vedder was on about it the other night

 

[magicbastarder]

I wouldn't bet on it. I read (or listened to maybe) a legal analysis of it where the guy was saying - if someone is not already a criminal then a conviction does an awful lot of damage to their life, even if the sentence is suspended. Actually going to jail more or less destroys you socially, and only makes sense if you're actually dangerous, and if someone has only done something violent once then it's hard to say for sure if they're actually dangerous

Irish times reported today that a chap working for the naval service got a suspended sentence after attacking his girlfriend, and is still working.

"He was described in a court as an accomplished heavyweight boxer on the Naval Service boxing team. The court heard how he punched the victim with both hands to the head at least five to 10 times, leaving her terrified and bleeding from the right eye."

 

[Cornu Ammonis]

I wouldn't bet on it. I read (or listened to maybe) a legal analysis of it where the guy was saying - if someone is not already a criminal then a conviction does an awful lot of damage to their life, even if the sentence is suspended. Actually going to jail more or less destroys you socially, and only makes sense if you're actually dangerous, and if someone has only done something violent once then it's hard to say for sure if they're actually dangerous

He beat a random woman until she was unconscious, that qualifies as actually dangerous. That’s life changing stuff for a victim, you don’t get the privilege of stopping your own life from being changed because you’re “of good character” or “show promise” in your job. I’m sorry but I’m not going to feel sad about someone losing their job over something like this.

 

[magicbastarder]

Also:

Women of Honour tribunal opens with urgent appeal for witnesses

‘Honour is a cardinal virtue in the Defence Forces. It means doing what is right,' Ms Justice Ann Power says in opening statement

www.irishtimes.com

 

[Cornu Ammonis]

And these character reference defence arguments, job prospects, and reputational damage worries are nearly always trotted out when a man beats the shit out of someone or sexually assaults someone.

 

[Cornu Ammonis]

We think a physical assault on a woman is worse than a physical assault on a man, regardless of the harm done.

Men are generally bigger, stronger, and more aggressive than women. It doesn’t mean that a man attacking a man doesn’t matter but a weak man can still do a lot of damage to a woman in a way that doesn’t balance out in the man versus man stakes. By the same argument, a man beating up a child is no different from a man beating up another man really.

And as for that other guy not getting a protest on his behalf, so what? How many women died or suffered in the Irish medical system before Savita? Sometimes enough’s enough, and things start to change. It doesn’t mean what happened before doesn’t matter or isn’t worthy of outrage, but some cases just manage to strike the match at the right time to capture the public attention.

 

[Deadmanposting]

I think there's a distinction between the moral case and the legal case here
Egg's telling me teh judiciary have their hands tied a bit

Public sentiment would probably lock the guy up, the legal system isn't built like that and has lots of second chances built in


I'd still say he's not out of the woods yet. I wonder if the army will get rid of him.

 

[Deadmanposting]

Men are generally bigger, stronger, and more aggressive than women. It doesn’t mean that a man attacking a man doesn’t matter but a weak man can still do a lot of damage to a woman in a way that doesn’t balance out in the man versus man stakes. By the same argument, a man beating up a child is no different from a man beating up another man really.

I mean I think there should be special protections for women in law, but the current vogue is to remove special mentions of women and mothers from law.

The words 'woman' and 'mother' were removed from the Pregnancy Leave Act and the Free Period Products Act bills and replaced with 'someone', 'everyone' and 'people'.

The same reason women want special protection in law from being beaten up is the same one they don't want men in their prisons and abuse shelters and doing their rape kits.

 

[ann post]

Bit of everything. He's supposed to be a trusted 'officer of the state' but used state provided training to beat the woman. And the state let him walk.

The thing about that is he's literally trained to beat up randomers for no fucking reason. That's the meat that goes in the grinder like.

Big asterisk on that, I know, and I'd say a few of you know people who are trained fighters and literally would destroy most normal people ina few seconds. these people tend to be the first to jump off into a taxi when trouble is brewing. This kid is using his training on innnocent people.

Anywhoo the best thing that can happen for the country is that it isn't tolerated as it has been and that lady gets to a place where she hasn't just been randomly fucked over for being sound.

 

[egg_]

@Cornu Ammonis I'm not defending anyone, I'm trying to take what has happened and see if I can use it to understand our culture better. I feel like you're arguing with something I didn't say

We think a physical assault on a woman is worse than a physical assault on a man, regardless of the harm done.

Men are generally bigger, stronger, and more aggressive than women. It doesn’t mean that a man attacking a man doesn’t matter but a weak man can still do a lot of damage to a woman in a way that doesn’t balance out in the man versus man stakes. By the same argument, a man beating up a child is no different from a man beating up another man really.

See where I said "regardless of the harm done"? I'm not making an argument or a judgment, just what I think is a reasonable observation about Irish (or maybe human) culture. I may be wrong, but if I am what you have written doesn't show me how