I hate these people (1 Viewer)

[Goff]

Originally posted by nine


My oul lad used to be a bus driver.Does that make him a cunt?

I think the key phrase there is "used to be".

So no.

 

[egg_]

Originally posted by nlgbbbblth
If you like. You should be able for it.

Oh dear.

First off anyone who pisses on a bus driver is obviously pure fucking nasty. The only person who might even try justify 'this sort of behaviour' would be someone who did it, and their justification presumably would be something like 'I was only buzzin off ye'

However I suppose you've realised from reading my previous posts that I don't totally subscribe to criminal/scumbag-hating views.

My number 1 reason for this is (and I reckon this is where we'll disagree) I don't think anyone is completely responsible for their own actions. The behaviour your article describes occurs on the 77 route rather than the 46A route because different environments cause similar personality traits to be manifested in different ways. You can see the way scumbags treat their kids ('I told you to FUCKING SHUT UP'). How are the kids going to grow up to be anything but scumbags? I know people who can be aggressive, or assholes when they're pissed, or who wouldn't think twice about ripping someone who they didn't know off, who DON'T burgle people or piss on bus drivers. Why not? Because they grew up in an environment where that sort of stuff just isn't done

My number 2 reason is this: I am aware, as I'm sure most people are, that people are not rewarded in proportion to the amount of work they do. Does someone on minimum wage in McDonalds work any less hard than me? I wouldn't think so, but I'm paid far more. What people have is not what they deserve, it's far more complicated than that ... so if someone has more than me and doesn't deserve it why shouldn't I take what they have? I might not deserve it, but neither do they.
I wouldn't exactly shed a tear if someone ripped off Bill Gates. 'But he can afford it' says you - 'but he can afford it' say the scumbags who rip me off.

Now before you go hounding me for 'excusing' anti-social behaviour, hear this. I've never been mugged, but I've been burgled twice and if anything really bad was ever done to me or someone I love by a scumbag I'd want revenge as much as the next citizen (and if someone pissed on me (without me asking ) I'd want to kill them). It's not that I'm excusing their behaviour - on the contrary I'm taking it as a given that it's a bad thing. I want scumbag-ism stamped out as much as you do, but I think the only way it's going to be possible is to arrange society (yes, SOCIETY) in such a way that the environments where people learn to be scumbags just don't exist, and the character traits that might lead to scumbag-ism in certain situations are expressed in different ways

See what I'm getting at?

 

[sparse]

Originally posted by egg_


(and if someone pissed on me (without me asking ) I'd want to kill them).

Are you asking?

 

[nlgbbbblth]

Egg

I tend to agree more so with your first reason. If people are brought up a certain way or in a particular environment then the chance of not turning out like their parents is slim. That is not their fault. And that’s why buses going to Dalkey and Blackrock will never have the problems that the Tallaght routes do. Nevetheless while that may go a long way in explaining the act it does not justify it.

Now it’s your second point that I disagree with. Ripping off Bill Gates is wrong. Ripping off an ordinary person like you or me is also wrong. I work for a bank. Last year somebody walked into my workplace and held up the counter staff up with a gun, People say banks can afford to lose the money – yes they can in the same way that the owner of a small shop can’t afford a similar theft. [The fact that the cashiers who had the gun put to their heads still wake up with nightmares shows who really suffers in a situation like this] Or another example is the mistake than BOI made with that payment to Spain. Most people I know thought that the man was right to keep the cash. But if the man ripped off say a charity the same people would be screaming that he was a dishonest bastard. Stealing is stealing no matter what way you look at it. Personally I think that values must be consistent. Just because somebody can afford to be mugged doesn’t justify mugging them.

Now about the person in McDonalds - the answer to that is, I don't know. Do people get what they deserve? Some do, some don't.

I see what you are getting at in the last paragraph but I feel would be extremely difficult to achieve.

 

[oppenheimer]

no matter what time of day you get the bus to/from tallaght it's always the same fucking story. scumbags and their scumbag offspring shouting spitting pissing smoking etc. i disaggree with the unofficial bus strike though, if anything they should stop the bus routes at night, then busdrivers and other people on the bus wont have to contend with all that shite.

 

[egg_]

Originally posted by nlgbbbblth
while that may go a long way in explaining the act it does not justify it.

I know ... and I wasn't trying to justify it, because it can't be justified.
An explanation is necessary though if we're ever going to manage to rid ourselves of anti-social behaviour. I guess I'm not arguing with you really, I'm just saying that complaining about people's behaviour is insufficient, we really should be trying to think of ways to change it.

Stealing is stealing no matter what way you look at it. Personally I think that values must be consistent. Just because somebody can afford to be mugged doesn’t justify mugging them.

I think that people's welfare is more important than consistent values. Bill Gates isn't a particularly good example ... say a member of the ruling class in some South American country, one of those guys who make up 1% of the population and control 99% of the wealth. The guy mightn't ever have done a thing wrong in his life, he just happens to be very rich ... but because he owns so much land/natural resources/whatever, other people don't own them, and therefore they are poor because he is rich. Does their entitlement to a decent life not outweigh something abstract like consistency of values?

I suppose we could argue back and forth all day about whether this applies to the Dublin Scumbag versus the Good Citizen, but anyway that's where I'm coming from

Mugging, by the way, I think is a totally different thing to just stealing. The damage (not just physical) done to someone who is mugged or held up at gunpoint just can't be measured against redistribution of wealth, so I don't think that kind of violent crime can ever be justified.

I see what you are getting at in the last paragraph but I feel would be extremely difficult to achieve

I know ... but it's what we all want, isn't it?

 

[nlgbbbblth]

Originally posted by egg_

Does their entitlement to a decent life not outweigh something abstract like consistency of values?

I suppose we could argue back and forth all day about whether this applies to the Dublin Scumbag versus the Good Citizen, but anyway that's where I'm coming from

I know ... but it's what we all want, isn't it?

That is a better example. And I do see where you are coming from.

 

[cassette/tape]

in every society there are people who are violent, people who are ugly, people who don't value life and manners just like there are others who care, who are honest and who would never dream to be anything else.
no amount of social conditioning can ever change it.
what about white collar crime?
this is done by people with good educations, with usually good backgrounds. these people piss not on buses but on their employers or their friends or other well off people they know.
no amount of social change will eliminate the bad in people.

 

[binky]

Originally posted by cassette/tape

no amount of social change will eliminate the bad in people.

Yes, but if you cut off say, a leg, you might get rid of some of the bad in people (assuming it's evenly dispersed) - plus, the inhibited movement allows for less mischief, lessen they got a very sharp crutch.