how to create a warm sound?.. (1 Viewer)

[stevieb]

i have a tascam dpo1fx, 2 akg c1000 and an sm57.. i record straight to hard disk .. the unit has two recordable ins at once and they arnt very powerful so i get a lot of hiss when the gain is up...

i want to create a warm sound and buy a new vocal mic...

i want to be able to record drums with four mics(plenty,no? and i will use a bass drum mic which i can get my hands on..) and use more than two mics at once for any instrument...

i was thinking..
a mixer(stereo outs) into electro-harmonix LPB 2ube into tascam.. to warm it all up?..

cost is an issue but i dont want to just buy cheap shit!!
simplicity is also an issue i rarely eq anything or use fx and just use the mic, postioning and the room to make a sound..
i dont want to start using computers to record as i really want to learn mic positioning and get quality sounds from simple effective means..

thoughts?..

i dump everything to pro tools for studio mixing..

www.myspace.com/elsworthcambs has some stuff i have done..

 

[dudley]

i love that protools has a lofi plug in now

 

[stevieb]

play niece now dudley..

 

[the departed]

"warm" is a bit vague but i think i know what you mean.
from my experience ive found that with acoustic guitar theres a sweet spot waiting for you to find..and when you find it its great.
actually ive not much to say really but the songs on yer myspace are quite nice really and "warm" enough...
later.

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

Hey dude, Steve was telling me he enjoyed mastering your stuff. Did he mix it too?

Anyway.. this is kinda of a big question/topic.
First off, what the hell IS "Warm"?
And why do you feel you need it?
What is it about your tracks that you feel is lacking?

Just asking, to get a better idea of what it is you're after.. I'll get back with a longer reply. Maybe.

 

[stevieb]

warm is soft, warm is depth, warm is atmospheric my recordings i think are very 2d and dont really create anything deeper..

those tracks that you heard on myspace are small songs alright but i want to record new stuff and want a different sound..

i would say sufjan stevens stuff is warm but airy and glassy
phil elvrums is warm but claustraphobic
jimmy eadie sound on japes album is warm but atmospheric
new england by jason anderson is also a sound i really love..

yeah we mixed it together i knew what i wanted and he(sound!) did it properly and deadly...

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

i have a tascam dpo1fx, 2 akg c1000 and an sm57..

Ok, first things first.. c1000s are kinda harsh sounding mics - this could be part of your problem.

the unit has two recordable ins at once and they arnt very powerful so i get a lot of hiss when the gain is up...

Also, the preamps on the tascam being noisy/poor probably doesn't help.

i want to create a warm sound and buy a new vocal mic...
i want to be able to record drums with four mics

Are we talking buying a new recording interface of some sort, or just a mic? Trying to get a handle on what you're after here - how many tracks can the tascam record at once?

i dump everything to pro tools for studio mixing..

Does this mean you have access to, or own some kind of PT interface?

i was thinking..
a mixer(stereo outs) into electro-harmonix LPB 2ube into tascam.. to warm it all up?..

Ok, here's your real question.
Hm.
Really, I don't think valve gear is the answer. There's a load of guys better qualified than I to tell you about where the whole "valve=warm" thing came from, but the truth is that most 'valve' gear is a con. Certainly almost everything in the way of valve mics and preamps below €500 (a generalisation) is unlikely to be true valve hardware. It could be that there's a valve somewhere in the signal path, but chances are it's not doing a whole helluva lot other than adding distortion.
So, here's the thing : half of the 'warm' sound you're after, is probably distortion. Probably because you don't like the distortion that your current mic to tascam setup is giving you.. guess what? Every single piece of recording equipment adds some kind of distortion. There is no piece of gear that doesn't change the signal it stores, conducts or manipulates in some way.
Thing is, the distortion (hiss) your preamp is giving you, and the distortion caused by the (cheap) converters in your tascam thingy isn't floating your boat. It may not be a good idea to throw some more distortion in there, valve or not. I'd bet that there's a few places you could look to spend your money. I'd also bet that what might be a good idea is if you look to remove some of the distortion from your signal chain... I may be crazy.

Here's what I'd think about.

1. A GOOD microphone. Not necessarily a valve one, just a good one. Cheap mics tend to add a subtle, nasty harshness to sounds. Now, sometimes that may be what you want..

2. A GOOD preamp. Again, similar thing. A nice preamp will make a whole world of diffrence, especially if you're running all your tracks through it. Similar thing with the cheap mic nastiness, and also.. it stacks up over time. Once you've got 12/14 tracks of subtle nastiness.. it adds up into a big nastiness.

3. It might be that your tascam box is letting you down. It's totally not a biggy though, especially if you're used to working with it and want to stay away from computers (good man).

4. And this really should be number 1.. like you said above, taking the time to get the mics right is HUGE. Moving a mic a few inches will make way more difference than fucking around with EQ for a while. Well, in a different way anyhoo. You know about proximity effect? Read up a bit, to a lot of people 'warm' lives in the low-mid area. Mic choice is huge, obviously.

Uhh, so yeah, it's hard to bullshit on about this in monologue. Buy me a pint sometime and I'll tell you some more. I'm not going to get in to recommending gear right now.. my beer is getting warm. Later

 

[SONYMEGADRIVE]

have you tried sampling the sun?

 

[stevieb]

thanks meance.. will not never buy you a oint though! ever! i mean never ever.. have i felt so low that got me running circles that i dont know.. a bit of all saints to finish the night off..

i understand everything your saying.. is that idea any good though?
mixer -> one double preamp -> tascam..

the c1000 are harsh i know that.. but on my guitars they have done a good job for me working them around a bit to get that low rumble..

the tascam exports wav files and using a usb you can transfer them across to pc..
im not changin the tascam the quality is good with the gains on low.. i know it dosnt change the sound too much so i think if i like the sound going into it from a mixer then it will be helped along by a preamp.. it can record two independant tracks at once and has two preamps in..

i want to be able to use more than just two mics at once.. like doing vocals and mixing in room mics too or being able to record drums properly..

the real quetions is what to buy?..

maybe a good enough mixer will have the tone and weight so i wouldnt need a pre amp..

i was recommended a mackie 1202 mixer.. i was thinkin the soundcraft compact 10 beacuse it just small and neat with no fx..

mic wise id need a vocal and then room mics.. thinkin large condenser and maybe a pair of rode nt5..

proximity effect=to close lots of low low low and nothing much else?..

the sun wont fit in the studio man! .. i laughed out loud when i read it..

 

[tim]

tape

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

thanks meance.. will not never buy you a oint though! ever! i mean never ever.. have i felt so low that got me running circles that i dont know.. a bit of all saints to finish the night off..

Uhh, do you think I was giving you shit or something? Sorry dude. I wouldn't have spent 20 minutes replying just to piss you off.

i understand everything your saying.. is that idea any good though?
mixer -> one double preamp -> tascam..

I think you'd be better off buying a good two channel preamp. You could use it in conjunction with the mixer when you want to record drums and other more-than-two-mics stuff.

the c1000 are harsh i know that.. but on my guitars they have done a good job for me working them around a bit to get that low rumble..

Cool.

the tascam exports wav files and using a usb you can transfer them across to pc..
im not changin the tascam the quality is good with the gains on low.. i know it dosnt change the sound too much so i think if i like the sound going into it from a mixer then it will be helped along by a preamp.. it can record two independant tracks at once and has two preamps in..

Ok, that's fine. Like I said, no need to change the tascam..

..maybe a good enough mixer will have the tone and weight so i wouldnt need a pre amp..

Really, you'd be as well spending the cash on a nice preamp. No desk in the low-low price range is going to be significantly better than the preamps in your tascam.

mic wise id need a vocal and then room mics.. thinkin large condenser and maybe a pair of rode nt5..

Yeah, the Behringer ECM8000 is a cheap omni mic. You can get them off thomann for about €60. These will work well as room mics and maybe on acoustic guitar. That would leave you a few extra quid to get a nice 'vocal' mic. If possible, you should try out mics rather than relying on what other folks think. There's not many places you can do that in this shitty town, but bigbearsound.com, studiosolutions.ie and maybe upstairs in music maker would be where to start.

proximity effect=to close lots of low low low and nothing much else?..

No, not quite. You can use it to add body to a thin/"cold" sound.

 

[stevieb]

that was sarcasim menace.. now im defo not buying yah a pint!

thanks again..

tape could be done.. i have an old quarter inch two track but i would be best just mixing down to it after protools.. yeah?

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

No, you'd be best giving it to me
There's no reason not to record through the 1/4" all the time.. try it and see what you like it on.

 

[the departed]

yo pete when you recorded the principles stuff, in what capacity was the 1/4 inch used?

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

Oh, my tape machine is a 1" 8 track.. I run everything through it on the way to the land of digital.

 

[the departed]

Oh, my tape machine is a 1" 8 track.. I run everything through it on the way to the land of digital.

explain more..
say the drums right..
so you mic them up..
then tell me of the root from there...
p.s howd the drum recording yoke go ??
cheeeers.

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

Um.. ok it goes

Mic
Preamp
Desk output
Tape machine
Digital Input

Is that what you mean?
Workshop went grand, thanks. I'll do another in a few weeks, hopefully.

 

[treesurgeon]

Redtapemenaceman,

This preamp thing is totally new to me...I record the drums (four mics) into a mixer, and have assumed that that will sort out any level problems on four/eight track. Still got hiss and all but it sounded grand.

But now this whole preamp thing...I'm lost at sea, in a leaky boat of techincal incompentency...

The preamp raises the level without any accompanying hiss...right? It gives a more powerful sound (I mean stronger and fuller, as opposed to "more rockin' all night!")...and I should get one...should I?

This board has been VERY useful in the last few weeks...props to redtapemenace and all y'alls.

 

[egg_]

The preamp raises the level without any accompanying hiss...right? It gives a more powerful sound

An external preamp is basically something you use instead of the gain knob (which is the thing that controls your internal preamp) on your mixer - you set the gain on the mixer to 0dB and put your external preamp between the mic and the mixer. A cheap external preamp will probably sound a bit different to how your mixer sounds when using its internal preamp, but you probably won't be able to say which you like better

(or at least I can never tell which I like better ...)

 

[treesurgeon]

Cheers. Are preamps common then? I mean, do we all here use them? My problem is reocrdings sounding tinny...very light and trebly...when I go for anything involving low eq when mixing, it get's submariney and farty.

Hmmm...do preamps usually guarentee a better quality of sound? Do they claim to?

Oh, I'm just so confused. Nurse, water.