have a look at this(!) (1 Viewer)

[IU]

pete (05 Feb, 2002 01:30 p.m.):
that site is run by an A&R person
vested interest and all that jazz

Nope, it's not. I think you'll notice it says 'Independent' in the main page text. However, Dave did become (UNPAID) A+R for Echo to (a)increase our foot-in-the-door and (b)increase the chances of IU acts being heard. As it is, Echo are sending a Rep to our launch Gig in Whelans on March 8th. Then again, so are the Independent and Hot Press. Do we work for them too? Nope. We don't represented anybody. "Judging a Book by it's cover" and all that Jazz...

Besides, would some corporate entity allow that image and colour scheme?

 

[IU]

Stephen (05 Feb, 2002 01:55 p.m.):
Is unsigned not the most degrading thing you could ever refer to your band as?
anto/Keeror would you refer to yourselves as being such?
I could say so much more but I know no-one would agree.
[1]i.e I reckon that site is ran by greasy haired wanta be rock star back in their day but will now settle for being managers ex-student union types who really have no idea what a good tune is[/1]

Is Unsigned not what these bands are? Such fucking snobbery is a pain in the arse and is the reason why nothing ever gets done in this bloody Country. Look at your name... What does it suggest? That you know what everyone else is missing? The IU name was chosen for simple convenience of understanding the purpose of the site. Seems it passed you by.

Another thing, didn;t your Mommy ever tell you that it was rude and innacurate to generalise? Try this:
Things are a bunch of never-been-there muso-snobs that think they know everything. Not my opinion, you understand, as I don't judge without knowing the facts. However, equally as accurate as your effort. "...greasy haired wanta be rock star back in their day but will now settle for being managers ex-student union types"

Where shall I start? I am a 34 year old married dad of three. Essentially a coach driver with a love for 'real' music of ALL genres. returned to college to prove I can. The other half of IU is, indeed, an ex-SU President (well done, good Doggy) who has an encyplaedic knowledge of who is who, what is what and was the founder of the National Student Music Awards which (indirectly) led to Berkeley working with Steve Albini. Am I going too fast for you? I'll slow down.

My interest (indeed, my philosophy in life) is that information is useless unless you use it. By the same token, we also realised there was a need for a middle ground. Something between the Thumped.com type sites and the Hot PressYearbook with the list of Govt agencies thrownin (and anythin else we can find). In the end it will make little or no difference to us if you or your mates like the site. If we survive (which, basically, is down to my spare time and my mate's spare money - not much in either case) then it will be for 'Unsigned' bands (horrible word, is it? I suppose you object to the term Irish too?) If we don't survive then you will be able to bask in the knowledge that there are hundreds of bands all over the country (not just Dublin) who could have and should have had access to the information we provided. That would make you very content, right?

To be honest I am getting fed up trying to educate people. Go back asleep. If you really give a shit about the Irish music industry - at ANY level where real music is preferred, then you'd welcome this along with any similar site that pops up - as we will. Indeed, we'll even give them all links on our site. That is, after all, what the Net was invented for - not for you to play snob.

And if I have offended any of you, then read the comment I responded to and consider it justified.

 

[IU]

Conor (05 Feb, 2002 03:02 p.m.):
I gotta agree with Stephen - the whole website just looks like it was set up for labels/a&r peeps to check out new bands that they might want to sign. Plus things is miles ahead of it - they only have 3 bands listed...

Cos it's about five minutes old and, being married with kids, in College and working part time, some people simply don't have the time. Here's a brainwave, why don't you help, instead of insulting? I'd welcome your coding, researching and typing help. Really, that's not sarcasm. I would.

And, to be blunt, the industry can fuck themselves, they have enough resources to see new bands. Jesus, most bands would shag them for a chance to play in front of them. This was intended to allow bands contact every facet of the music industry, including private email and direct line numbers, to redress the balance. When it is grown up, it just might do that, unless those with small minds turn everyone else off first, without asking any questions of us...

 

[IU]

Keeror (05 Feb, 2002 04:25 p.m.):
Yup, and proud of it! I ain't selling out to nobody!
I think it's unfair to judge Unsigned without talking to them.
...
Unsigned's misssion statement isn't that different to Thing's, though there's a definite language difference.
quote]


Well, well, well... I finally found a comment that I didn't have a heart attack over. At this stage I was nearly ready to call the whole thing quits and tell you all to fuck off and just close it down. What with exams and 'real life' as ytou eloquently put it, I have enough headaches. A long time agon I was one of those people who jumped onto the old Bulletin Boards system (beofre the Net was invented) and I always looked for a way to use it to enhance the information capabilities of ordinary people. That's my 'mission' in life if you like. My partner in IU just wants to make everyone rich and famous.

By the way, every one of us sells out at every major decision point in our lives. It's simply a matter of trhe degree. In our case IU wants to arm bands with enough information to decide at what price they would be willing to sell. After all, we all have a price.

 

[IU]

Stephen (05 Feb, 2002 04:33 p.m.):
still think they're dirty under-panted Ent's officers.
I think the major difference between THiNGS and unsigned is THiNGS isn't "for record company and other industry people to access new and upcoming bands".

Oh, look - a little 'i' in the middle of all those CAPITALS. Does that make me right in labelling you a Phreaker or Hacker? Probably not. No more than I was a 'post-modernist feminist supporter' for liking Bjork's music when she originally went solo, but of course, in your world, assumptions and generalisations are par for the course, indeed almost expected. Or am I worng? Incidentally, who do you make music for, if you do? People? would you like more of them to hear the masterpieces you espouse? Sure you would. And how do you do that? Well, let's see.... by manipulatin ghte industry into providing you with the opportuinity to address a wider audience but on your own terms? That's what I would want if I had ever been foirtunate enough to be able to play anything. Words are my game, including contractual, legal and political/debate. I love it and I will use it to further the promotion of new Irish talent. If that means 'kissing up' to the industry by using more palateable language, then so be it. I realise the value of diplomacy and compromise. How do you know someone in things is not planted by the industry? Because they all talk like you and agree with you? Grow up.

Stephen (05 Feb, 2002 04:33 p.m.):
smells of dax wax if you ask me.

Never used the stuff. Sorry. Used to use Brylcream dandruff but that's a different story.

 

[IU]

john (09 Feb, 2002 04:16 a.m.):
*chomp chomp*

That makes sense on so many levels.

 

[pete]

IU (09 Feb, 2002 12:52 p.m.):

pete (05 Feb, 2002 01:30 p.m.):
that site is run by an A&R person
vested interest and all that jazz

Nope, it's not.

Right. So when on your news page you say:

Irish Unsigned co-founder Dave Reid joins the Chrysalis team
Dave Reid, the ideas man behind Irish Unsigned as well as the National Student Music Awards, has joined the mighty Chrysalis by becoming Irish A&R man for Echo Records. Now Acts and Artists have even more reason to want Dave to listen to their demos. However, simply being included on IU.com will not guarantee Acts will end up on the Echo label. Dave has to be seen to be very (very) selective about the material he sends over for recommendations to Echo. If you are sending something to IU, then, it makes sense to (a)Make it original and (b)Make it good quality.

you meant what, exactly?

(I trust you can see how stating on your news page that one of the site founders has become an A&R man could lead one to believe that "the site is run by an A&R person".)

I think you'll notice it says 'Independent' in the main page text. However, Dave did become (UNPAID) A+R for Echo to (a)increase our foot-in-the-door and (b)increase the chances of IU acts being heard.

Right. So he's doing it for the kids. For the good of humanity. And if Chrysalis / Echo happen to pick up on any of his recommendations, he gets no finders fee. No commission. No few points off the top?

Fine. Fair play to Dave.

(I trust you can see how an A&R person involved with a site for "unsigned" bands could be perceived as having a vested interest.)

As it is, Echo are sending a Rep to our launch Gig in Whelans on March 8th. Then again, so are the Independent and Hot Press. Do we work for them too? Nope. We don't represented anybody. "Judging a Book by it's cover" and all that Jazz...

First of all, I would imagine the Independent and Hot Press are sending representatives because that's their job - you know, news, reviewing, reporting and all that stuff.

Secondly, if I had judged the book by the cover, I would have thought "hmm irishunsigned.com - there's a site for irish unsigned bands.".

But i didn't - I took the time to read the site, and formed my opinion from that. Don't get me wrong - I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with what you're doing, as long as everyone involved is honest and knows where they stand.

I just happen to think that what Things are trying to do is different.

- You want to provide a place for bands and labels / A&R can be put in contact with each other so that bands can get signed and get their music out there.

- Things also want to help bands get their music out there... but on their own terms.

Two quite different objectives, I'm sure you'll agree.

Besides, would some corporate entity allow that image and colour scheme?

I went for grey on grey meself - it's a lot safer

 

[#10-7]

hell hath no fury like a web designer scorned...

 

[pad]

IU (09 Feb, 2002 04:18 a.m.):

Anthony (05 Feb, 2002 11:19 a.m.):
.. and that their website has something on it. (?)

Jeez, get a life. Some of us have other things to do! Besides, I just looked at yours on SnapTo. Lot's of swearing and not much else. will appeal to the musicians alright but not to the industry. You appear to want to alienate one from the other. A novel idea but one we feel seems destined to cause problems for musicians, leading to the 'Rich getting richer...' syndrome where only U2, Cranberries, Daniel O'Donnell appear clean enough to get business. And then you can all complain about the lack of support for grassroots music. I suppose that's what you want, or had no-one considered it?

em im pretty sure that what anthony was saying is that our website has very little on it at the moment as we are just finding our feet, whereas your website has plenty of resources. im pretty sure it wasnt a stab at you. you should really be taking nicorette or this paranoia will really get at you.

 

[Anthony]

See above: UI, you totally missed my point about you site having content. As a person involved in Things, I was just trying to give the things web people a subtle kick in the arse (perhaps too subtle).

For what it's worth I think the Things links page should include yours. You cover some stuff that would be of interest to everyone. For example IMRO stuff. hardly likely to get much coverage on things but very important.

Sorry that you felt you had to reply with such vigour but glad you posted anyway.

 

[Monkey]

I love the music industry. The Pixies were my favourite manufacturers.

 

[dudley]

Is Unsigned not what these bands are?

not really.
i'm happy to call scientific laboratories the corpos label. i'm sure joan of arse are too. i'm sure the mound are happy to call julius geezers theirs and the rednecks with greyslate.

how and ever, that's me nitpicking

mmm, nits

 

[IU]

Okay, in no order.

Correct, Dave gets no finders fee. No, it's not ENTIRELY for the kids. He wants to get into Brand Marketing (not music) and wants to have a track record. I want to get into design and layout in terms of publications and also need a track record of actually 'doing' something (anything, as long as it proves initiative, is good enough).

If Echo and Chrysalis pick up a band, good luck to them. Eventually, we hope the band will give us a track or two and eventually we will make and sell a Compilation. Sound familiar. Our hope ius that the band will be well known before we make the CD, and we can make money to promote IU.

Dave bacame an A+R man for a couple of reasons. Mainly, I supose, its the ideal job for someone who wants to help to improve the backwards Irish industry (his continuous lament is that all the Irish A+R people of the majors, combined, didn't manage to get more than 5 bands signed last year between them, I think). Bands will also send IU their info if there is a record company listening occasionally. As the added bonus it adds weight when you call up companies. for the same reason he registered ROC PR Ltd. We also have contacts in other areas and they only ever initially agreed to talk to use because of our titles. Sad, though it is, Ireland is like that.

IU gigs are funded from our pockets. There is no backing for IU from anywhere. We will take what we can get, though, but we will maintain control of what goes on the site. In fact, I will. I am the only person in the world, including Dave, who knows the access code for the site. If the gigs gget good, we will take them around the country to help outside Dublin. Currently, it's simply not feasible (and the wife won't let me!). Bands will get a share of any profit made from their gigs since it is their fans attanding. They also get exposure.

By the way, do you really think that all media people go to gigs cos it is their job? I have seen many reports of gigs that showed without doubt that they weren't even there, including the prestigious final of the National Student Music Award last year, where Walls played and Relish made their video.

Look, I am not going to go on defending what you couldn;t be bothered to understand. However, I will say one thing: I agree that IU and Things are different in scope. We help anyone who wants help, while you help yourselves. Things is simply a co-operative. Nothing new, unusual or wrong in that but be honest - Things is not interested in promoting those in competition to yourselves - quite the reverse. In fact, maybe that explains the hostility to IU, since it will help bands that you won't.

Don't bother replying. It isn't worth the effort as I am probably not going to see it too soon and by the time I do, it'll be old news.

 

[IU]

pete (09 Feb, 2002 02:23 p.m.):
I just happen to think that what Things are trying to do is different.

- You want to provide a place for bands and labels / A&R can be put in contact with each other so that bands can get signed and get their music out there.

- Things also want to help bands get their music out there... but on their own terms.

Two quite different objectives, I'm sure you'll agree.

Yep, I agree. IrishUnsigned wants to provide information, arrange gigs, create a stir, promote, advise, help, and generally improve the life of, ANY Irish band, act, or artist who is not currently signed to anyone. We also inclde Grapghic Design students amongst our target (not working for someone, but who want to create a portfolio by designing CD covers and posters etc for bands, fo free).

Things, on the other hand, was set up, I believe, to promote the group of bands in the co-op. Unless I completely misunderstand it.

By the way, you might not from my replies to your posts about distribution and emails (and whatever else I answered the other day) that I even took the time to make suggestions about the problems Things was having. Naturally, there was the usual juvenile criticism, but I expect that now. I'm too old for it. But it was hardly the action of someone who was in the pocket of the Indistry, was it? As I said before, I like providing information for people who need it, whatever reason. Look at my sig - that's my philosophy.

 

[pete]

wow.

Since most of your second last post seemed to be directed at my reply, i'm assuming that the ".. I am not going to go on defending what you couldn;t be bothered to understand." comment was also directed at me.

Trust me - I understand. Probably more than you'll ever realise.

 

[IU]

pete (11 Feb, 2002 01:52 a.m.):
wow.

since most of that seemed to be directed at my post, i'm assuming that the ".. I am not going to go on defending what you couldn;t be bothered to understand." comment was also directed at me.

Trust me - I understand. Probably more than you'll ever realise.

Sure you do, keep telling yourself that. I don't trust anyone who says 'Trust me' at the start of a sentence. It assumes and suggests a superiority complex without the need/ability to explian why you should be trusted any more than anyone else. If I was to say 'Trust me, its for your own good', would you believe me? Fuck no. Look, let's just leave it there. We are doing no good and we're obviously on a different wavelegth. All I will say is this (as your member Anthony agreed), why not just accept it? I accept your reason for existing with Things. Personal insults and attack will do no good for the industry or the bands and will only succeed in wasting bandwidth.

Incidentally, as is my way, here's some informaiton. If you hear of a duo called MoJo playing your area, see them.

 

[IU]

lorcanzo (09 Feb, 2002 03:06 p.m.):
hell hath no fury like a web designer scorned...

I'd love someone else to do it. I really would. I haven't the tima and Dave hasn't the ability. All I did was rob from a site I built for the College (www.nciGrapevine.com) to use the colour scheme. It saved time. If you have a criticism that you want to helkp to coirrect, then fine - go for it. If not, then why bother wasting space?

 

[pete]

IU (11 Feb, 2002 02:00 a.m.):
Personal insults and attack will do no good for the industry or the bands

Ehh personal insults? Attacks? From me?

Where, exactly?

I really, really hope for dave's sake that you're not involved in the PR end of the operation.

 

[IU]

dudley (10 Feb, 2002 01:06 p.m.):

Is Unsigned not what these bands are?

not really.
i'm happy to call scientific laboratories the corpos label. i'm sure joan of arse are too. i'm sure the mound are happy to call julius geezers theirs and the rednecks with greyslate.

If that means they have signed contract with each other, then fine. If not, then they are unsigned. You know what we are referring to with the term Unisgned and I think you are just nitpicking.

 

[IU]

pete (11 Feb, 2002 02:09 a.m.):

IU (11 Feb, 2002 02:00 a.m.):
Ehh personal insults? Attacks? From me? Where, exactly?
---------------------
I really, really hope for dave's sake that you're not involved in the PR end of the operation.

The whole reaction to the info about IrishUnsigned ahs been one of attack. You know it, I know it. Dax wax, Vested Interest etc? Not you personally, if you say so. You see, I don't lookm at the name of the person I am posting to/replying to. Why? Because I don't like to cloud my judgement on a post by a previous 'run-in' with that person. I take every post on it's merits, without bias. The overall atmosphere in the Things area was one of attack and ridicule. Hell, just in case you forgot, I checked your posts. I found this

"Right. So he's doing it for the kids. For the good of humanity. And if Chrysalis / Echo happen to pick up on any of his recommendations, he gets no finders fee. No commission. No few points off the top? Fine. Fair play to Dave."

The sarcasm in that barbed insult was plain. All you were short of doing was saying "Fucking Liar!" in it.

And your comment about my being involved in the PR end of the project was a compliment, was it?