Ha !! (1 Viewer)

[jim mac lunch]

i didn't vote for the exact same reason....
i found it impossible to find a reasoned explanation of what the treaty was about....
the media, bored as they were with the facts, jumped on the sensationalist bandwagon and made everything anybody said about it seem like an invite to an arguement....
any leaflets i got through my door were from the no campaign...
so i had no idea what was good about nice but knew all about what was bad.....
even though i am pro europe i didn't vote because i didn't have an informed opinion....
i mean did they expect us to vote yes coz they said so????

 

[Vinnie]

That's exactly it. Bertie literally said "Trust us on this one. Vote Yes. You owe us this much."

A few harsh lessons in democracy were learnt this week, and not before time.

 

[Pantone247]

looks like the Italians are going to wait behind the bikesheds after school to beat the shit out of us....


La Repubblica (Italy) - "Poor Europe, to have received a stab in the back from its favourite son. The Irish wound, the referendum No to the Nice treaty, will not be fatal for eastern enlargement, but it bleeds, it hurts and it will only heal slowly. The more Europe's ambition grows, the more clearer are its limits.

a less 'mafia-esque' view....

"Gazeta Wyborcza (Poland) - "The Irish, who have so much in common with us, stand in the way of our common Europe. We believe that they did not really mean it and we hope it will be temporary. But the Irish referendum was a lesson in democracy for all of Europe . . . It is a failure of the Irish government, who did not explain what the treaty was all about."

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2001/0611/hom19.htm

 

[Dan]

Its probably all for the best. Next time the government might actually tell us what the hell its all about. I voted yes because from what I understood of it, it was for the better. I do agree though that a lot of people voted no because they couldn't logically vote yes for something they knew nothing about. Although, what did sicken me was that I heard people openly express the opinion of "who needs them anymore". I think thats unacceptable.

 

[mugwump]

Dan (11 Jun, 2001 01:30 p.m.):
Although, what did sicken me was that I heard people openly express the opinion of "who needs them anymore". I think thats unacceptable.

I totally agree. I have personally not met anybody though who expressed such an opinion.
I voted no for pretty much the same reasons that pantone247 and jim maclunch voted no. I wasn't really sure what I was voting for. At the beginning of the campaign Fianna Fail said that every household in Ireland would get information on the Treaty. All I got was a NO flier from Patricia McKenna which was bloody useless. I sent away for the info, read every single page of the white paper and the Government booklet and still wasn't sure. I talked to people about it and watched discussion programmes where Nice was being debated. I asked people on both sides and got a whole load of conflicting information. I voted No, not because I don't like Poland or Hungary, but because I could not vote yes to something that nobody seems to have a bloody clue about.

I personally think it was a good excercise in Democracy. The treaty will still most likely be passed in one form or another over the next few years. As far as I understood, Ireland's No vote was not going to stop anybody joining the EU. That is why I voted NO...to try and encourage more discussion and distribution of information. A friend recently heard a journalist on the radio who works a lot in the Dail. The journalist ( I'm not sure who it was..sorry ) who spends a lot of time around politicans was basically of the impression that a large amount of our elected reps. are not very democratic people at all and did not want to bring this to the vote.

I think it is dangerous to assume that the agendas of X amount of politicians is what is best for everyone, especially when the people are not even asked to ratify those agendas by voting.
I also think it is dangerous to assume that just because the French and German Politicians (for example) say one thing that they speak for the majority of French and German citizens.

As a result of the No vote everybody should now get a little more clued in as to what is going on and that can only be a good thing. Surely nobody can dispute that having more information and more of an insight into what is going on is a negative thing.

 

[mugwump]

To further illustrate my point that I don't think anyone really knows whats going on.

Meanwhile Swedish Prime Minister Mr Goran Persson has said Ireland's rejection of the treaty threatened to delay or block EU expansion. "This risks if not stopping, at least delaying enlargement," Mr Persson said.

"The entire treaty we agreed on in Nice is aimed at making possible EU enlargement," he said.

Mr Persson's remarks, during a debate in the Swedish parliament today, contrasted with what he had said on Friday - the referendum result would not delay or postpone the EU's eastward enlargement.

No wonder hardly anybody voted...

 

[egg_]

Just on enlargement ... the Amsterdam treaty (the last one) caters for 5 extra countries joining the EU.

 

[snap-apple]

well, boy do i feel small. it would have been nice if all the people who voted (meself included) were as well informed... (and i'm not being sarcastic)

 

[Burgerbarbaby]

Why is it the case that Ireland was the only country to put it to a referendum? I know about our constitutional provision on the matter, what I'm wondering is how come every other democracy in Europe doesn't do the same.

 

[silo]

because all the other EU states (busy giving out to irish citizens for not allowing eastern european countries to 'become more democratic' - an orwellism if ever there was one), have decided not to let anything so democratic as a free vote on the nice treaty. after all, the people in other EU states might start giving the wrong answer like we did. idiots! don't they know yet that their governments know what's best for them!

of course, the most disgusting thing about all this was bertie and pals going over and apologising because we got it wrong, rather than taking their political mandate from the irish people and implementing it...

 

[Burgerbarbaby]

Not much of a mandate....

but seriously, what I'm getting at is: I'm sure the Irish government is no different to any other European government - if it could have railroaded us into jumping through the hoop (to mix a metaphor or two) it certainly would. But there are measures in place to stop such an action. I find it incredible that Ireland is the only country in Europe which forces its government to put matters like this to the people...I mean, shit, dude

 

[silo]

i know it's not much of a mandate, but going by their own rules they should be over there defending the no vote as the democratic will of the people. the fact that we have referendums on this sort of stuff is pretty much a historical accident, by the way... de valera put stuff in the constitution about voting on europe cos he was worried about protecting neutrality in order to protect irish identity... we only ever get to vote on these things cos dev didn't want us all ag caint bearla... like, shit, dude.