dont poke fun at Islam! (2 Viewers)

[Jerry Twig]

Dear Lefty,

Thank you for your kind words in your de-rep. It is so nice to be called a boring fucker by someone so esteemed as your good self!

For the record, this is a politics thread. I can only imagine that is why i was possessed to talk about politics. I should however appreciate how a comedian and scallywag of your standing would find concepts like terrorism a real drag, and for that I can only apologise. It happens that you stumble into these places when you see a thread with the heading "poke fun". Perhaps Pete should warn the funny guys like yourself.

By the way, I was talking to Hugh and he didn't seem to be in the least bit put out. Oh, and I care as much about rep as you do about other people's opinions (I don't want to give you a headrush so I'll just tell you - I couldn't care less).

PS - say hi to granny for me!

 

[Jerry Twig]

http://www.thumped.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=472781#post472781

 

[mugagag]

The most important issue in this situation is how the western world will react to the publication, and not the muslim world. In major parts you will find theocracy and in such society this would be a very serious offence. They have their right to demonstrate and boycott. The interesting thing is how our secondary society will react. Here it is not an offence, and the cartoons should for that very reason have been printed. It is important that the Danish state will not apologise as Denmark or the Danish people haven't commited a crime. Nothing is absolute, not even religions. We live in a subjective part of the world and that is why freedom of speech should not be limited or bended in any way! And I find it worrying and serious when spokesmen from the USA and Great Britain as countries have an opinion and come out with an apology. The free press and states/countries have no connection what so-ever and shouldn't have.

 

[nlgbbbblth]

How did people feel about christian nuts giving out about Jerry Springer the Opera? Oh wait, they're christian so it's ok to disrespect their beliefs but lets not upset the muslims.

Exactly.

For some people it's like this

Christians are uncool so fuck them
and
Muslims are cool so let's defend them

 

[Bellatrix]

Did anyone see Roger Koppel, the editor of Die Welt (who also published the cartoons) on Newsnight last night?

Koppel: "What the Islamic world needs to understand is that Germany has a proud tradition of free speech and satire."

Kirsty: "But would that extend to printing Anti-Semitic cartoons?"

Koppel: "Please, there are limits."

Indeed.

 

[oh shit]

Exactly.

For some people it's like this

Christians are uncool so fuck them
and
Muslims are cool so let's defend them

For other people it's like this:

christians run our country
and muslims are persecuted, barred from entry, portrayed as savages in the media, and attacked on the streets.

 

[mugagag]

When the cartoons are discussed they have been taken completely out of context. Jyllandsposten printed them in a whole section giving very different pionts of views, we forget that right-winged Danish politicians were charicatured in the same manner. It wasn't an attack on muslims or their religion, in fact it was printed to start a discussion within Denmark. About integration and by discussing prevent prejudices and misunderstanding. It wasn't a blasphemic attack. How can anybody compare that to anti-semitism???

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

the whole situations fucked.whatever about the original printing of said cartoons all use of them since is just antagonistic towards the whole muslim world.the relevant newspapers need to grow up and stop abusing free speech.

 

[spiritualtramp]

the whole situations fucked.whatever about the original printing of said cartoons all use of them since is just antagonistic towards the whole muslim world.the relevant newspapers need to grow up and stop abusing free speech.

Why should the papers not print the cartoons? They are part of a major news story.

It is deeply antagonistic to the very concept of a free media to suggest tip-toeing around one religous group as extremist members threaten to kidnap and murder people.


Cartoons are available here should anyone wish to view them
http://www.muslimparody.com/Danish.html

I quite like the one of Muhammed with his eyes blacked out and the two women standing beside him.

 

[spiritualtramp]

For other people it's like this:

christians run our country
and muslims are persecuted, barred from entry, portrayed as savages in the media, and attacked on the streets.

Yawn yawn yawn. We've had this discussion before. Muslims in the west are not persecuted. Millions upon millions of muslims live under horrid dictatorships in the middle east - why don't you care about this fact? I think you *wish* there was state persecution in the west so you'd have something new to moan about.

As for barred from entry, plenty of non-muslims are barred from entry as well. Countries have these things called immigration laws which apply to people of all religions.

The media does not portray ALL muslims as savages. It does happen to report on muslims who have commited horrific acts on innocent civilians - these violent fucks are the ones ruining the reputation of Islam, not the media (that is what the turban bomb cartoon was referring to - its called satire). Should the media just not report when muslims commit violent acts?

Yes, muslims get attacked on the street by bigoted cunts. So do protestants, gay people, catholics etc. Some people are always going to use hatred of a religion/sexuality as an excuse to take their anger at their own shitty fucked up lives out on another human being.

 

[spiritualtramp]

It wasn't a blasphemic attack.

Well the koran says that Muhammeds image cannot be shown. I imagine the concept of this was to do away with idolatry, golden calfs etc. So technically it could be seen as blasphemic but at the end of the day people cannot behave this way just because someone insulted their beliefs.

The reaction to this has been nothing but a disgrace.Issuing death threats and going around hotels looking for french journalists to kidnap is totally, totally unacceptable.

I was so very angry at the footage of British youths with placards saying stuff like behead those who insult islam, kill infidels and (my personal favourite) freedom go to hell. Ha ha, someone on a protest march with a placard saying that is just doesn't get it.

How can anybody compare that to anti-semitism???

It isn't comparable at all.The anti-jew cartoons the germans used were part of a propoganda campaign and the motive for them was just hatred. The muhammed cartoons were mere satire in a free press, and were certainly not a government or even a media plan to poison people against muslims.

 

[mugagag]

It might have been perceived as blasphemic, however it was not measnt as an attack for that cause. It was meant to be provoking, but there was no subjectivity in the article. In fact by publishing images of both, they kept an obejctivity and didn't keep any special rules to the muslims or indeed the Danes. What I have heard and read is that the prophet has been illustrated many times before. You should all see the interview with a Danish imam and the Danish culture editor of Jyllandsposten on BBC. Good stuff.

 

[hugh]

The reaction to this has been nothing but a disgrace.Issuing death threats and going around hotels looking for french journalists to kidnap is totally, totally unacceptable.

I was so very angry at the footage of British youths with placards saying stuff like behead those who insult islam, kill infidels and (my personal favourite) freedom go to hell. Ha ha, someone on a protest march with a placard saying that is just doesn't get it.

So a bunch of English hotheads and some Palestinian gunmen are behaving badly in reaction to this. Big fucking surprise. These people are assholes. But, as usual, this is being taken as representative of the general reaction of Muslims everywhere, allowing the usual suspects (e.g. Mark Steyn on Newsnight last night) to continue with their demonisation of the entire Islamic world. Great stuff.

I have more to say about this but I gotta go ....

 

[spiritualtramp]

These people are assholes.

Agreed. Nobody here has said that all muslims upset about this are assholes, did they? I fully accept that people are entitled to feel offended about something.

But, as usual, this is being taken as representative of the general reaction of Muslims everywhere, allowing the usual suspects (e.g. Mark Steyn on Newsnight last night) to continue with their demonisation of the entire Islamic world. Great stuff.

I'm not taking it that those chaps with placards inciting violence speak for every muslim in britain. What I do find utterly shocking is how the muslim council of britain fails to distance themselves from such extremists.

What did Mark Steyn have to say on Newsnight? Just because he criticises the Islamic world does not mean he is "demonising" it. There is a lot of valid criticisms one can make about the Islamic world - it doesn't make one a racist to disagree with the oppressing fucks that run Saudi Arabia or Iran.

 

[mugagag]

Exactly! You should be able to critisize anybody, that doesn't make you a racist or inconsiderate. Nobody should be above that fact, no religion or no political group. That's democracy. In Scandinivia this started to happen more and more. An exhibition in Gothenburg was taken down because it might offend muslims plus various other incidents leading up to this. That is why Jyllandsposten wanted a debate. Everybody was tip-toeing around the matter in fright that they might appear as racist. I am utterly surprised about BBC. Such subjectivity in media. No religion should be a tabu.

 

[spiritualtramp]

Exactly! You should be able to critisize anybody, that doesn't make you a racist or inconsiderate. Nobody should be above that fact, no religion or no political group. That's democracy.

Totally agree. People saying "I agree with freedom of speech - but we shouldn't cause offence" don't grasp the very concept of freedom of speech.

I am utterly surprised about BBC. Such subjectivity in media. No religion should be a tabu.

The BBC have a lot of journalists across the muslim world who would certainly have been targeted had they shown these cartoons. They have to consider the safety of their journalists. Reporting from the middle east is risky enough already and I imagine the BBC considers being able to report news stories from these countries more important than showing a cartoon.

 

[oh shit]

Yawn yawn yawn. We've had this discussion before. Muslims in the west are not persecuted. Millions upon millions of muslims live under horrid dictatorships in the middle east - why don't you care about this fact? I think you *wish* there was state persecution in the west so you'd have something new to moan about.

As for barred from entry, plenty of non-muslims are barred from entry as well. Countries have these things called immigration laws which apply to people of all religions.

The media does not portray ALL muslims as savages. It does happen to report on muslims who have commited horrific acts on innocent civilians - these violent fucks are the ones ruining the reputation of Islam, not the media (that is what the turban bomb cartoon was referring to - its called satire). Should the media just not report when muslims commit violent acts?

Yes, muslims get attacked on the street by bigoted cunts. So do protestants, gay people, catholics etc. Some people are always going to use hatred of a religion/sexuality as an excuse to take their anger at their own shitty fucked up lives out on another human being.

fool, i wasn't speaking for myself.

you should go ask the people out burning embassies how they feel about christian-muslim power relations in the world and see what they say. then you can make your rhetorical points about moral equivalence to them and hopefully this whole thing will just blow over blah blah blah

 

[mugagag]

fool, i wasn't speaking for myself.

you should go ask the people out burning embassies how they feel about christian-muslim power relations in the world and see what they say. then you can make your rhetorical points about moral equivalence to them and hopefully this whole thing will just blow over blah blah blah

To be honest, In Syria, it's not about religion as much as politics. Everything is controlled by the state. And they let it happen. The state has been accused of being too moderate. The orthodox militant groups has been on the edge for a while, this was a chance for the state to prove those groups wrong. So misinformation and provocation from the state is too blame more than anything. There had been txts floating around that "the Danish people" would set the Koran on fire in Copenhagen. Thats why it happened, not because of valid grounds ot the religious power-balance in the world. I think it's about much more local issues and not Islam itself. It's cultural gaps, more than religious gaps.

 

[hugh]

What I do find utterly shocking is how the muslim council of britain fails to distance themselves from such extremists.

From recent MCB press release

"Inevitably some elements may seek to exploit this current crisis to provoke negative or extreme reactions among Muslims. The MCB urges fellow British Muslims to exercise the utmost restraint in the face of these provocations.

“There may be elements that would want to exploit the genuine sense of anguish and hurt among British Muslims about the manner in which the Prophet has been vilified to pursue their own mischievous agenda. We would caution all British Muslims to not allow themselves to be provoked. They should respond peacefully and with dignity at all times,” added Sir Iqbal."

 

[hugh]

I imagine the BBC considers being able to report news stories from these countries more important than showing a cartoon.

Shame those newspapers didn't feel the same way.