Communist University 2012 (1 Viewer)

[ann post]

c'mere dude. any chance you'd respond to my post where i completely destroyed the myth of communism?

 

[Psycho Punk]

do you think that sorta supports what i was saying about communism being impossible because of the human factor?

Depends on the set of circumstances. I wouldn't give up. I'm not sure thats why I'm not in any party myself. I'm in campaigns.

 

[Psycho Punk]

China is a communist state? In terms of political freedoms maybe. Market-wise: capitalist as fuck.

Stalinist dictatorship in terms of freedom, otherwise Capitalist/ large element of state capitalism.

 

[ann post]

Depends on the set of circumstances. I wouldn't give up. I'm not sure thats why I'm not in any party myself. I'm in campaigns.

the circumstance are earth, and i meant post #4 up the top there.

 

[pete]

China is a communist state? In terms of political freedoms maybe. Market-wise: capitalist as fuck.

stop ruining my joke

 

[Psycho Punk]

c'mere dude. any chance you'd respond to my post where i completely destroyed the myth of communism?

Missed it with all the fuckology. Will now have brunch before I faint from hunger and will respond to you.

 

[ann post]

I'm not sure thats why I'm not in any party myself. I'm in campaigns.

Organised by Communist Party of Great Britain.

you are in the communist party of great britain. even if you think you are not.

 

[maims bond]

Do you have a hangover or is it just too much coffee?

Yeah right, being an opposition councilor is easy. Why don't you stand for election.

Strangely enough, people on the left have differing opiniios, just like on the right. The ULA is actually an aliance which brings together the SP, SWP, Seamus Healys WUAG and other socialist independents.

Actually yes, peopl from Ireland travel to London. You could do worse than attend a few sessions of this summer school.

You seem angry. Do my views threaten yiu in some way? Its ok, you won't be shot come the revolution.

I don't stand for election because it's a thankless, shitty job.

Strangely enough, people in FF, FG, Labour and SF have differing views. However, they're smart enough to know that if they group together the people with roughly similar viewpoints then they'd have more political clout than if they remain in their judean people's front. The ULA isn't even an established party, is it?

I could do worse than attend the school? Really? How're you gonna get there? I hope it's by ferry where those companies pay their staff a fair wage. You surely wouldn't fly with Ryanair, the non-unionised Capitalist champions, would you??

p.s. who the fuck are the WUAG????

 

[Psycho Punk]

communism fails because it would either have to be entirely worldwide administered by a tiny linux program or otherwise it is left in a postition where it must turn the country into a company that has to compete financially on the world market for its imports and exports, you know, food and stuff. because humans are human the people A: most communist in ideals and more likely B: related to thier superiors end up running this country/company, and quite typically into the ground.

basically unless you can turn the whole world communist overnight its a joke essentially. the idea and ideal is very nice and would work quite nicely if there was no such thing in the natural human tribe as alpha males and alpha females, you cant do it with humans, hence the need for a wee computer program.

also, the most communist country ever to exist was ireland 2000-2010, when there was only one class (people with too much money), and there was no money in the sense that you could pretty much print the stuff at will.

if you can get one person at bandcamp to successfully debunk what i wrote there, let me know.

Communism in one country would not work. The rest of the capitalist system gangs up on it. It either becomes an inward looking dictatorship or it collapses. Its not going to happen all over the world simultaneously, but if several countries elect real left governments then its less likely to be crushed. Its this sort of evolution of changes in social forms which is more likely than revolutiin.

I'm perhaps not the best person to defend communism in so far as it means revolution as I'm not a member of any party but very little of the time at the Communist University is devoted to the idea of revolution itself. Take a look at last years timetable and you will see that it deals with ongoing solidarity campaigns, economics, anthropology, history. This is a summer school not a summer camp for boy bolsheviks and girl gramscites.

Yes you would have to deal with human psychology. But human beings co-operate all of the time and agree with social nirms which help the less able. The old and disabled aren't left out to starve anymore. I think we can move even further along.

I don't think any computer system would be needed to run a world communist system. That would only make sense if you had a world wide dictatorship where needs and resources were decided from at a command level. Its not tge sirt of future society I aspire to.

But I find the idea of such a computer system fascinating. Would make a good SF story. Ken McLeods novel The Star Fraction was about a computer programme which facilitated the revolution.

I don't think 2000 -2010 had anything to do with communism, it had everything to do with bankers and buiklders makinbg money. Ordinary peooke gad to take out crippling loans if they wanted to buy a home. Bankers printed the money for their bonus cheques alright.

 

[Psycho Punk]

you are in the communist party of great britain. even if you think you are not.

No I'm not. They dont produce pod people.

 

[Psycho Punk]

I don't stand for election because it's a thankless, shitty job.

Strangely enough, people in FF, FG, Labour and SF have differing views. However, they're smart enough to know that if they group together the people with roughly similar viewpoints then they'd have more political clout than if they remain in their judean people's front. The ULA isn't even an established party, is it?

I could do worse than attend the school? Really? How're you gonna get there? I hope it's by ferry where those companies pay their staff a fair wage. You surely wouldn't fly with Ryanair, the non-unionised Capitalist champions, would you??

p.s. who the fuck are the WUAG????

Christ but you are cranky.

The ULA is an alliance. Why don;t you demnanbd that FG & FF join together?

I get there by Aer Lingus, unionised.

WUAG - Workers and Unemployed Actiin Group, based in Tipperary. Seamus Healy is a WUAG TD and member if the ULA.

 

[Psycho Punk]

Ye know its a pity that virus scare last night wasn't reaper time. We could have buikt a communist society from the ashes. Or a Mad Max society.

 

[sonofstan]

Ok, communism, as an ideology, is largely discredited and died with the fall of the Berlin Wall, arguably many years before that. It is now kept on life support by a raggle taggle group of leather jacket wearing middle-aged men who mainly discuss whether or not they can be described as neoclassical-Trotskyists or post neo-rave evangelical libertarian socialists.

You're dissing obsessive middle-aged men arguing about categorial minutiae on an indie music site?

 

[Scientician 0.8]

ZING!

 

[Scientician 0.8]

I could imagine some sort of communist-style system forming at a point when technology is sufficiently advanced that we've become post-scarcity, if post-scarcity is actually possible. I suspect that a thousand years from now there'll still be people living in the gutter with others in high towers lording over them. By the way I recommend this buke:

 

[ann post]

I'm not trying to bend you words, but essentially you've whole heartedly agreed with me. the two or three things you are pushing in there i'll respond to:

[qoute]but if several countries elect real left governments then its less likely to be crushed.[/quote]

several countries? it would need to be all of europe overnight with a backing of china and russia to have a snowflakes chance. china is dependent on european and american capitalism so thats never going to happen. if it did, i'd refer you to the phrase 'absolute power corrupts absoutely' - i know its cheesy to use cathphrase but generally they exist due to being true. the thing to consider as well is that even if you had lefties elected europewide tomorrow, everyone working for them probably likes the concept of keeping life the way it is, and may not follow them down the road of inching toward communism. basically its asking a lot and doomed to fail.

Yes you would have to deal with human psychology. But human beings co-operate all of the time and agree with social nirms which help the less able. The old and disabled aren't left out to starve anymore.

so are you saying that we *might* have to reprogram human nature for this to work?? darwinism isnt a religion you know, its an observation on what has happened naturally for millions of years. you cant stop human nature. people compete for partners, people compete for food, people compete for shelter, that is human nature. communism is against that.

I don't think any computer system would be needed to run a world communist system. That would only make sense if you had a world wide dictatorship where needs and resources were decided from at a command level.

how would the worlds resources be distributed fairly by humans? give me an example in history where this has happened without corruption and favoritism slowly creeping in?

I don't think 2000 -2010 had anything to do with communism, it had everything to do with bankers and builders making money. Ordinary peooke gad to take out crippling loans if they wanted to buy a home. Bankers printed the money for their bonus cheques alright.

the comparison i was thinking of was the fact that no matter who you were, the govt would give you 180+ eu a week to breathe, the highest welfare rate in the world. if you want a classless, leaderless society, thats pretty much as close as you can get in the western world, ever.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

Why do communist dissers have to be so all or nothing about the subject? Can we not have a more a la carte approach, let the communists have their university and then see if they have any good ideas in there and run with those ourselves in some sort of more realistic and moderate socialist dream state where our fellow men and women will wreck everything anyway? I think state control of everything and gulags for dissenters are things we can all get behind no matter what our personal ideology.

 

[Psycho Punk]

Ann

I'm not talking about social or genetic engineering. There was a time in the West when people starved to death because it was their place to do so. Things have moved on from that, we have discovered a thing called society. It is generally accepted that there should be a welfare safety net and state proivided education and health care. I'm saying we can build an even better society.

I don;t know how the worlds resources could be redistributed in a more equitable or even more efficient manner. I'm not an expert in logistics nor am I qualified as a computer systems architect. I was only ever a systems analystr.

You really see €180 pw as something to be aspired to? At a time when bankers and builders were acting like robber barons?

You seem to have a rather cynical view of human nature, I perhaps have a more optimistic view. I think things can improve because we have moved quite a distance already. In the recent Irish Times MRBI poll 69% of respondents said welfare rates should not be cut. Thats not people acting like alpha males or females.

As I said, the summer school is not about revolution, its about discussing history, economics, anthropology. Its about applying the lessons learned to ongoing struggles. Its about fighting to improve our current situation. Revolution is a small item on the agenda.

Why not flesh out your ideas and send an email to the Weekly Worker? I can't guarantee that people will respond but I'm fairly sure your letter would be published. [email protected] http://www.cpgb.org.uk/

 

[Psycho Punk]

I could imagine some sort of communist-style system forming at a point when technology is sufficiently advanced that we've become post-scarcity, if post-scarcity is actually possible. I suspect that a thousand years from now there'll still be people living in the gutter with others in high towers lording over them. By the way I recommend this buke:

Thats a book I mean to catch up with. Spending too much time online.

 

[ann post]

i'm not cynical, i deal with facts and people think i am being negative, because people like to dwell in the fantasy realms. anyways, any chance you'd get back to me on these questions and stop skirting round answers and calling me a negative person and asking me to join some silly gang:

how would the worlds resources be distributed fairly by humans? give me an example in history where this has happened without corruption and favoritism slowly creeping in?