2020-21 Football thread (3 Viewers)

Burhan Sargin (Sargun) (1929 - 15 September 2023)
Fenerbache forward who played in 1954 World Cup scoring a hat trick against South Korea.
He scored 7 goals in 8 caps.

Turkish football association tribute.

Burhan Sargın'ı Kaybettik - TFF'den Mesajlar Detay Sayfası TFF

Türkiye Futbol Federasyonu Resmi İnternet Sitesi - Milli Takımlar, Süper Lig, Puan cetveli, Fikstür,TFF 1. Lig, TFF 2. Lig, TFF 3. Lig, Ligler, Ziraat Türkiye Kupası, Futbol, Bilgi Bankası, Haberler, Futbolcular, Teknik Adamlar, Oyuncular, Hakemler, Maçlar, Statlar, Cezalar, Müsabaka programları
tff.org
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

FIFA Football Mundial piece on Turkiye's 1954 World Cup campaign.
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
Unicron said:
www.balls.ie

Ireland Defender Says Team Were Hindered, Not Helped, By Vera Pauw | Balls.ie

Ireland defender Diane Caldwell said that the team succeeded in spite of Vera Pauw during her tenure in charge, not because of her.
www.balls.ie www.balls.ie
Click to expand...
Aye, having a good LOL at this, she's all like "I'm one of the more experienced players and things weren't up to standard, we did what we did in spite of Pauw"

- You're one of the more experienced players, so out of curiosity, what is it that you all would have been doing anyway regardless of Pauw taking over, that you weren't doing for campaigns before when you were getting tanked 2-0 at home by the likes of Finland in 2017?
 
Cormcolash said:
Aye, having a good LOL at this, she's all like "I'm one of the more experienced players and things weren't up to standard, we did what we did in spite of Pauw"

- You're one of the more experienced players, so out of curiosity, what is it that you all would have been doing anyway regardless of Pauw taking over, that you weren't doing for campaigns before when you were getting tanked 2-0 at home by the likes of Finland in 2017?
Click to expand...
Diane Caldwell has put unnecessary pressure on the squad. The FAI had no one lined up to come in and Diane's comments aren't encouraging anyone to take the job. This doesn't seem to have been an issue until this summer??

It's like if McCarthy had been sacked after the 2002 WC.
Jack Charlton was not a popular choice as Ireland manager in 1986 but the players just got on with it, even if Jack's tactics weren't playing to player's strengths.
Vera Pauw did play to the strengths of a team that has a big problem scoring goals.

My guess is the Irish team is going to go backwards now.

I'd be interested to hear what any women - especially of the player's generation - have to say on this.
This is a strangely sour turn of events and I find it hard to understand how the squad could collectively feel like this.
I understand why Spain manager Jorge Vilda was sacked as the Spanish FA was in crisis and he was a big part of the problem.

A lot of folks have their heads in the clouds when it comes to the Ireland national teams.
 
Sky Sports News did a long piece (about 10 minutes) on James McClean on Monday. They went through the issues (Bloody Sunday briefly explained) and abuse he's faced. Then Melissa Reddy interviewed him. It ended with various organisations being asked for comment. The FA made excuses for its inaction. The Royal British Legion said it supported McClean's right to opt out of wearing the poppy.

Good to see this in UK media at last.
It's simply applying the same standards as other victims of bigotry that counts.
 
nuke terrorist said:
A lot of folks have their heads in the clouds when it comes to the Ireland national teams.
Click to expand...
In such a big way. Like so many are on Kenny's back with the men's team, criticising him for not getting results - and there's fuck all mention being made of the fact that we're in a group with 2 of the top 7 ranked teams in the world!
Honestly, doesn't matter a shite who is managing Ireland, fuckin Ancelotti wouldn't get Ireland in the top 2 of that group. Busby could come back from the grave and team up with peak Dalglish and Jock Stein, and we wouldn't be getting in the top 2 of that group, with the players we have.
So people are having a go at him for losing away to Greece in Athens in the middle of June - look, fact is, that match doesn't matter a fuckin shite if you can't get any kind of result against France or Netherlands. Those two are just gonna tank everyone else and take the 1-2 spots, and that's just how it is right now. The Brits would finish 3rd behind them, and they're ranked 4th in the world. We're ranked like 50th or some shit. The Greece matches only take on any importance at all if we somehow manage to upset one of those two beasts - and guess what, we don't have an established structure in place in the country to bring players up to the level required to compete with those kind of teams. We don't have the coaches, the facilities, we're completely reliant on our lads hopefully ending up with a good team in England or somewhere (and we do have some quality players, if they can get to the right place to develop - but without exception, they all have to leave Ireland to do so).
What we do have is a coach who has come in and totally modernised the style of football we are playing, which should have been a process started 10 years before he arrived, basically rebuilt the team in almost every position using young players that we needed to start giving matches to, and has actually managed to play decent football against France and the Netherlands, to the point that we can feel a bit unlucky not to have snatched a point or two at home against them (especially that France match). 2 teams that were both in the last 8 of the World Cup and both only lost to the best team in the world.

Like for real, you can't criticise Kenny for this shit. Picking on results against the likes of Greece, it's just sucking on the dregs of punditry to have something to have a go at him over. Sure, we all want results to be better - but how are we going to do that, without actually having a development structure in place that is going to bring in new players that can gradually improve each position in the team? Which is exactly what Kenny has been doing.
I mean, I've nothing against the likes of Sadlier for the most part, and like Brian Kerr is a legend, but they're doing jobs where they're just forced to criticise to have something to say really - because the reality is, when that Euro qualifying draw was made and we got France and Netherlands, we were automatically absolutely fucked, and you literally can't criticise Kenny for not getting us top 2 in that group.

And here's the other thing, aside from all that - teams like Greece aren't shit, amazingly. Reality check - they're just like us, except a few years ahead on the development curve, because they started it earlier/have better facilities in their own country.

Basic fact is that the Irish media establishment, when talking about the Irish national team, have no conception of just how fucking far we've fallen behind as a country when it comes to producing enough of the players we'd need to compete at the level we used to manage at. The rest of Europe has modernised in leaps and bounds, we still have an association that couldn't even build a national training facility.
 
Cormcolash said:
In such a big way. Like so many are on Kenny's back with the men's team, criticising him for not getting results - and there's fuck all mention being made of the fact that we're in a group with 2 of the top 7 ranked teams in the world!
Honestly, doesn't matter a shite who is managing Ireland, fuckin Ancelotti wouldn't get Ireland in the top 2 of that group. Busby could come back from the grave and team up with peak Dalglish and Jock Stein, and we wouldn't be getting in the top 2 of that group, with the players we have.
So people are having a go at him for losing away to Greece in Athens in the middle of June - look, fact is, that match doesn't matter a fuckin shite if you can't get any kind of result against France or Netherlands. Those two are just gonna tank everyone else and take the 1-2 spots, and that's just how it is right now. The Brits would finish 3rd behind them, and they're ranked 4th in the world. We're ranked like 50th or some shit. The Greece matches only take on any importance at all if we somehow manage to upset one of those two beasts - and guess what, we don't have an established structure in place in the country to bring players up to the level required to compete with those kind of teams. We don't have the coaches, the facilities, we're completely reliant on our lads hopefully ending up with a good team in England or somewhere (and we do have some quality players, if they can get to the right place to develop - but without exception, they all have to leave Ireland to do so).
What we do have is a coach who has come in and totally modernised the style of football we are playing, which should have been a process started 10 years before he arrived, basically rebuilt the team in almost every position using young players that we needed to start giving matches to, and has actually managed to play decent football against France and the Netherlands, to the point that we can feel a bit unlucky not to have snatched a point or two at home against them (especially that France match). 2 teams that were both in the last 8 of the World Cup and both only lost to the best team in the world.

Like for real, you can't criticise Kenny for this shit. Picking on results against the likes of Greece, it's just sucking on the dregs of punditry to have something to have a go at him over. Sure, we all want results to be better - but how are we going to do that, without actually having a development structure in place that is going to bring in new players that can gradually improve each position in the team? Which is exactly what Kenny has been doing.
I mean, I've nothing against the likes of Sadlier for the most part, and like Brian Kerr is a legend, but they're doing jobs where they're just forced to criticise to have something to say really - because the reality is, when that Euro qualifying draw was made and we got France and Netherlands, we were automatically absolutely fucked, and you literally can't criticise Kenny for not getting us top 2 in that group.

And here's the other thing, aside from all that - teams like Greece aren't shit, amazingly. Reality check - they're just like us, except a few years ahead on the development curve, because they started it earlier/have better facilities in their own country.

Basic fact is that the Irish media establishment, when talking about the Irish national team, have no conception of just how fucking far we've fallen behind as a country when it comes to producing enough of the players we'd need to compete at the level we used to manage at. The rest of Europe has modernised in leaps and bounds, we still have an association that couldn't even build a national training facility.
Click to expand...
probably the best post on this thread.

the way the media spoke about Greece before that match delusionally underestimated them.
Giles is apparently very supportive of Stephen Kenny.

We are in big trouble - developing proper young development structures and investing in grass roots football and the LOI is the way forward.

England came up with a youth development plan in the 2000s and they now have no shortage exciting players who came up through that system.
 
The cynic in me things the calls to fire managers is there very simply because they see people on tv do it. They listen to BBC five ramblings and psychologically at heart they want to do what they saw other people do. Soccer identity in punditry is measured on what happens in the PL.

I heard a half hour conversation on the radio last week about Kenny and they mentioned everything above in terms of him being on Frances back using a new team missing three major players and it not being the first time we'd rattled a team who were supposed to walk over us. All that and they were still committed to him having to be fired, which might make sense if it was the PL and he'd spent 100000000 on players and come up short.

The critics aren't self aware yet essentially.
 
Cormcolash said:
In such a big way. Like so many are on Kenny's back with the men's team, criticising him for not getting results - and there's fuck all mention being made of the fact that we're in a group with 2 of the top 7 ranked teams in the world!
Honestly, doesn't matter a shite who is managing Ireland, fuckin Ancelotti wouldn't get Ireland in the top 2 of that group. Busby could come back from the grave and team up with peak Dalglish and Jock Stein, and we wouldn't be getting in the top 2 of that group, with the players we have.
So people are having a go at him for losing away to Greece in Athens in the middle of June - look, fact is, that match doesn't matter a fuckin shite if you can't get any kind of result against France or Netherlands. Those two are just gonna tank everyone else and take the 1-2 spots, and that's just how it is right now. The Brits would finish 3rd behind them, and they're ranked 4th in the world. We're ranked like 50th or some shit. The Greece matches only take on any importance at all if we somehow manage to upset one of those two beasts - and guess what, we don't have an established structure in place in the country to bring players up to the level required to compete with those kind of teams. We don't have the coaches, the facilities, we're completely reliant on our lads hopefully ending up with a good team in England or somewhere (and we do have some quality players, if they can get to the right place to develop - but without exception, they all have to leave Ireland to do so).
What we do have is a coach who has come in and totally modernised the style of football we are playing, which should have been a process started 10 years before he arrived, basically rebuilt the team in almost every position using young players that we needed to start giving matches to, and has actually managed to play decent football against France and the Netherlands, to the point that we can feel a bit unlucky not to have snatched a point or two at home against them (especially that France match). 2 teams that were both in the last 8 of the World Cup and both only lost to the best team in the world.

Like for real, you can't criticise Kenny for this shit. Picking on results against the likes of Greece, it's just sucking on the dregs of punditry to have something to have a go at him over. Sure, we all want results to be better - but how are we going to do that, without actually having a development structure in place that is going to bring in new players that can gradually improve each position in the team? Which is exactly what Kenny has been doing.
I mean, I've nothing against the likes of Sadlier for the most part, and like Brian Kerr is a legend, but they're doing jobs where they're just forced to criticise to have something to say really - because the reality is, when that Euro qualifying draw was made and we got France and Netherlands, we were automatically absolutely fucked, and you literally can't criticise Kenny for not getting us top 2 in that group.

And here's the other thing, aside from all that - teams like Greece aren't shit, amazingly. Reality check - they're just like us, except a few years ahead on the development curve, because they started it earlier/have better facilities in their own country.

Basic fact is that the Irish media establishment, when talking about the Irish national team, have no conception of just how fucking far we've fallen behind as a country when it comes to producing enough of the players we'd need to compete at the level we used to manage at. The rest of Europe has modernised in leaps and bounds, we still have an association that couldn't even build a national training facility.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with any of that. But at the same time it does feel like Kenny's time is winding down. He should be given credit for what he did right , the blooding of the young players, the change in the style all that. But it feels like the end of a cycle, and I think he's been very unfortunate with the timing of his period in charge, the covid period was obviously a total shitshow, massive illness enforced changes to the squad every time, and also with the timing of things winding down for him as we look like some good young players are coming through that he won't see the full benefit of; I don't think Ogbenne is brilliant but he's a fucking nuisance and he's finally made it to the PL, Collins has played a lot of premier league football at a young age and teams have played a lot of money for him; Ferguson, jesus christ, who knows what he'll be, he might be better than Keane, he might be better than both of the Keanes.

I don't think the solution is to bring in a Lennon type who'll have the team playing sufferball all over again, get someone in who'll try to play some football, but who also won't lose to Luxembourg. He hasn't had great players, but he's had players better than that. Like, Hughton might be an obvious candidate, and we could probably pay him more than the Ghana FA are if he wanted the switch, but his football wouldn't be a progressive step.

In short, thanks for everything Boss man Steo, here's your gold watch. If Ireland are going to be shit at least we were shit with the ambition to maybe be more, which is the first time in a long time we've had a coach who suggested that.
 
Who can we get in that is going to progress the football though? For real? Who can we bring in that will focus on positive passing football and helping develop these young players? Give Duffers a chance?

See that Luxembourg thing is kind of what I'm taking about, where pundits are talking about football as if it's still 10 years ago. They aren't the joke they once were anymore, primarily because they've got all the money in the world to build great training centres and bring in a load of Brazilians with dubious passports.
Yes, we shouldn't be losing to them - but they are now a team that can always threaten an upset. They nearly did Portugal right after they did us, in the same qualifying group. They beat Iceland and Bosnia recently, both teams ranked above them and not far below us.
This is the whole thing, the 'easy game against the minnows' in Europe is very quickly disappearing. There's only a handful of teams left in Europe where you can realistically go away and still expect to hammer them, only a handful of teams that don't have at least the organisation to defend well and make it difficult for long periods. Luxembourg can defend well, and now have a bit of threat and pace on the break, thanks to that Brazilian lad up front.
 
Cormcolash said:
Who can we get in that is going to progress the football though? For real? Who can we bring in that will focus on positive passing football and helping develop these young players? Give Duffers a chance?
Click to expand...

Well, we know that Kenny can't or at least hasn't to date got us to a tournament which is one of the fundamental benchmarks for a coach who's continental championship has room for half of the confederation's member nations. He deserves credit for all the good, positive stuff that he's done but this feels like a natural end point.

(Also I do think he comes off as a self satisfied smirking wanker so my investment in idea of Kenny doesn't much extend to literal real Kenny)

As for who they should look for as a replacement. England's current u-21 coach would be worth trying to talk to.
 
Unicron said:
Well, we know that Kenny can't or at least hasn't to date got us to a tournament which is one of the fundamental benchmarks for a coach who's continental championship has room for half of the confederation's member nations. He deserves credit for all the good, positive stuff that he's done but this feels like a natural end point.

(Also I do think he comes off as a self satisfied smirking wanker so my investment in idea of Kenny doesn't much extend to literal real Kenny)

As for who they should look for as a replacement. England's current u-21 coach would be worth trying to talk to.
Click to expand...
I've never got that vibe from Kenny, if anything he seems like too much of a nice guy for the dog-eat-dog world of elite football, seems intensely uncomfortable in the spotlight and this can lead to him coming across as sort of naieve in press conferences and post game interviews and blurting out kind of bravado statements which I think is a nervousness / defence mechanism thing (having heard him interviewed in more casual settings, he comes across much better).. I'm pretty much in agreement with the thinking that his time with Ireland has reached an endpoint, while also being fully in agreement with the lengthy posts above about the non-manager root causes of our national football difficulties.
 
Marinho Peres (1947 - 19 September 2023)
Captained Brazil to 4th place at 1974 World Cup and then joined Barcelona for two years.
He later had a long career as a manager in mostly in Brazil and Portugal (Santos, Sporting, Botafogo, Maritimo, El Salvador etc.)
en.wikipedia.org

Marinho Peres - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Giovanni Lodetti (1942 - 22 September 2023)
AC Milan defensive midfielder who won two European Cups and 17 caps for Italy playing in the 1966 WC and the 1968 Euros victory.
en.wikipedia.org

Giovanni Lodetti - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
it.wikipedia.org

Giovanni Lodetti - Wikipedia

it.wikipedia.org it.wikipedia.org
A few years back a letter in When Saturday Comes magazine mentioned a kick about in a Milano park among British tourists. A man circa his 60's came over and asked to join in. The UK tourists were dubious when he said something about being left out of the 1970 World Cup squad at the last minute (ala Gary Waddock) but despite the lads reservations they realised the older Italian was the best player there.
Afterwards they googled Giovanni Lodetti and realised he had told them the truth.
 
Frank McDougall (1958 - 1 October 2023)
Aberdeen striker from Fergie's glory days at Pittodrie who retired due to a back injury aged 29.
www.bbc.com

Aberdeen & St Mirren striker McDougall dies aged 65

Former Aberdeen and St Mirren striker Frank McDougall, who has died aged 65, was "a pleasure to play with", says former Pittodrie captain Willie Miller.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
 
Anyone watch Ireland women beat N.I. 3-0 and Hungary away 4-0??
just wondering what you thought of it.

was at a family gathering and funeral both of those days.
 
nuke terrorist said:
Anyone watch Ireland women beat N.I. 3-0 and Hungary away 4-0??
just wondering what you thought of it.

was at a family gathering and funeral both of those days.
Click to expand...

Saw bits of it. The teams they were playing were very poor.

But after setting themselves up to fall flat on their faces over the comments about VP and her approach to the game they at least didn't end up looking like fools.
 
New posts

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Activity
So far there's no one here

Support thumped.com

Support thumped.com and upgrade your account

Upgrade your account now to disable all ads...

Upgrade now

Latest threads

Latest Activity

Loading…
Back
Top