1st day at primary school (1 Viewer)

[egg_]

this is actually quite complex but are you then suggesting that a society that doesn't value or encourage creativity is better off (in all respects)? or that creativity just has no intrinsic value?

No.

I think that a society that encourages creativity may be economically more competitive, but that's likely to be the only societal benefit - encouraging creativity alone, without making other more fundamental changes to How Things Work, won't make people happier or more fulfilled. That's not to say that a society that encourages creativity will be worse off, just that it's unlikely to make any difference

I think creativity does have intrinsic value, but you can't argue for or against something based on its intrinsic value, can you? That's a purely subjective emotional judgement, surely?

but above you suggested he is saying that "creativity skills will somehow make society better off, with happier and more fulfilled citizens" that's a pretty coherent summation of a complex set of issues.

That's what I think he might be trying to say, but his point (if he has one) is so obscured by anecdotes that it seems we on this thread can't agree what it is

 

[Pantone247]

That's not to say that a society that encourages creativity will be worse off, just that it's unlikely to make any difference

I'd strongly disagree with that!

We spend a lot of time teaching children to draw, paint and make and do, partly because it's fun, but also because it gives them confidence in their own abilities, develops co-ordination and gives them pride in a job well done... teaching drama to special needs children is a big way of helping them deal with expression and communication, social interaction on top of the satisfaction. Even in prison art will be taught as way of encouraging a calmer more introspective state of mind.

Promoting creativity encourages confidence, social skills, a faith and pride in ones own problem solving abilities, how can these things not better a society?

 

[egg_]

We spend a lot of time teaching children to draw, paint and make and do ...

You're conflating "creativity" with "the arts".

Promoting creativity encourages confidence, social skills, a faith and pride in ones own problem solving abilities, how can these things not better a society?

"Encourages", perhaps, but does promoting creativity actually bring these things about? Are there other ways of bringing them about? I can, and I'm sure you can, think of plenty of people who are creative but lacking confidence, or socially inept, or without faith in their own abilities.

 

[taubstumm]

egg: are you saying that 'creativity' (as it's being talked about by ken robinson et al) is really just a variation on 'job skills'? and that, economically, the man wants creativity -- not for its own sake, but for the sake of profits or social engineering or whatever other evil thing you're having yourself? and that's your problem with it all?

 

[egg_]

egg: are you saying that 'creativity' (as it's being talked about by ken robinson et al) is really just a variation on 'job skills'? and that, economically, the man wants creativity -- not for its own sake, but for the sake of profits or social engineering or whatever other evil thing you're having yourself? and that's your problem with it all?

My problem with it is it's being presented as something other than a relative economic advantage. I don't see that being creative makes you happier, and, economically, if everyone is creative then the benefits of being creative evaporate

I'd want to be more careful about slagging Ken Robinson off for being incoherent, it seems I'm having a lot of trouble getting my own thoughts across

 

[egg_]

Posting on this thread so much means I'm going to have to be pretty creative with my timesheets

 

[Pantone247]

You're conflating "creativity" with "the arts".

oh come on, don't be such a pedant.. you see no link between the arts and creativty? that one might foster the other?

"Encourages", perhaps, but does promoting creativity actually bring these things about?

yes. I know plenty of people who teach arts and drama to various groups, prisoners to specials needs students to children. I have, as do many people, groups and goverenment agencies, every faith in the process

Are there other ways of bringing them about? I can, and I'm sure you can, think of plenty of people who are creative but lacking confidence, or socially inept, or without faith in their own abilities.

I'd lay a lot of that down to not having these talents nutured, I know lots of people who are far more talented then me, but don't work in creative areas. In certain cases their familys wouldn't have seen arts as a proper career, in other cases there was a fustration at what is viewed as competition within colleges and work places, in other cases it was just a certain apathy towards their ability, that art or music was just something they did out of boredom

I don't know Egg_, I can't help feel your arguing for the sake of arguing. That you as a musician, with the years of pleasure playing in a band (a creative concern surely?) would be so dismissive of creative endeavours and their worth to society. Do you really believe the world would be no better or worse if everyone just passively watched TV (with scores of unimmagnitive info-moricals running around the clock) and dribbled on ourselves occasionally?

 

[MDR]

I may have this wrong but i took egg to mean that being a creative person doesn't necessarily make you happier or more fulfilled (please see the biography section of waterstones), especially when you get into the working world and find that creativity is only valued by its contribution to getting things done rather than as a quality in its own right.

From bitter experience I have learned that you can tell that a thread has peaked when people have to clarify their earlier posts, which then lead to endless rounds of "so you're saying X" "No, I'm saying Y" "But if you say Y then why did you say X" etc etc.

 

[ann post]

you missed the part where i said education isnt specific to work ro. that was the peak. good times.

 

[MDR]

I think it is abundantly clear from this thread that Isabel and Éala have been posting here under their fathers' names as a way of reliving the playground arguments from their first day at school.

 

[broken arm]

there is lots of research looking at creativity, policies to nuture creativity and its links to well-being on a micro and macro scale.

even the dry as fuck European Commission recognise this -

Creativity is often associated solely with artists and fine arts in people's minds, whereas innovation is often thought to be about technological progress in manufacturing only. The European Year of Creativity and Innovation takes a wider view and looks at these concepts from different angles at a time when it is the most needed from an economic and societal point of view. It highlights the human aspect of innovation and the potential in all of us to contribute to prosperity and well-being in Europe.


Creativity, in addition to being a characteristic of artists, is a human trait common to all of us, and a process which can be learnt and encouraged. It is the generation of new ideas. Innovation is about exploiting new ideas to create value, whether in manufacturing or services, in the private or public sphere. As such, innovation is a key driver of growth. Creativity is innovation's prime source.


The challenges that Europe and other parts of the world are facing today are tremendous - climate change, poverty, globalisation and the current economic slowdown, just to mention a few. Tackling these complex challenges will require new knowledge, as well as new approaches to combining existing knowledge and finding holistic solutions. Innovation relies on scientific and technical skills, as well as on problem solving abilities, critical thinking, experimentation, risk taking, openness to change and team work. These are creative skills.

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/innovation/policy/design-creativity/index_en.htm


other researchers have looked at the personal dimension

Csikszentmihalyi suggests that we focus on ways improve the opportunity for creativity to be experienced in our everyday lives. In general, many social scientists researching creativity encourage society to promote and to pursue creativity in all age groups as a way to enhance societal well-being.

http://ucsfhr.ucsf.edu/index.php/assist/article/enhance-your-well-being-through-creativity/

 

[David Kronenbourg]

this thread has become more boring than your average business studies class

 

[snakybus]

hey now that the dust has settled on the borefest that was this thread (sorry eggsy and armsy! you know I love you crazy guys!) how're things going in 'big school'? Nora is mad into it, new stories every day, loves her bunch of friends, getting stars for her 'lamha trasna' and all that. Stories?

 

[Moods For Mallards]

Téigh a codladh!

Right?

 

[BonsaiSuperstar]

Téigh a codladh!

Right?

Translated: "Right you little c*nts, I was on the tear til 6 am this morning with Mr Murphy who teaches 6th class. I have a splitting hangover, now shut the f*ck up while i get a cup of tea and a neurofen"

 

[cmndr mind fuck]

St. Brigids in Castleknock, anyone else go there?
Bit of a shithole, smashed glass, pissheads seemed to congregate there after school hours in the caravan type class rooms they had..hardcore schooling!!.|..|

 

[lemonbravo]

"Daddy I was in the "Golden zone" today"

"well done......sounds exotic...."

 

[cmndr mind fuck]

St. Brigids in Castleknock, anyone else go there?
Bit of a shithole, smashed glass, pissheads seemed to congregate there after school hours in the caravan type class rooms they had..hardcore schooling!!.|..|

My own experience.FAIL.

 

[hugh]

Bizarrely there appears to be a "Marxist National School" in Crumlin. You can see it listed here.

http://www.wtsdublin12.com/Schools/

And in one or two other places. What's the story? Is this for real?

 

[egg_]

hey now that the dust has settled on the borefest that was this thread (sorry eggsy and armsy! you know I love you crazy guys!) how're things going in 'big school'? Nora is mad into it, new stories every day, loves her bunch of friends, getting stars for her 'lamha trasna' and all that. Stories?

Hmmph. My posts edify rather than entertain, lowbrow

Hard to tell what Isabelle really thinks of school. She talks about various classmates a bit, but claims she always plays by herself at lunchtime which is a little worrying. "Why don't you play with the others?" "I just don't"