Referendums 24, a woman's place is wherever she wants it to be? (1 Viewer)

[egg_]

I can ensure this post is written, or I can strive to finish it, in which case it may not be finished

The old text is "endeavour to ensure", not just "ensure". I don't see any difference between that and "strive"

Dude, you seem to be saying that the reason that you receive disability benefit from the State is because of this text in the constitution. I just can't for the life of me see the connection

Article 41.2.1° “In particular, the State recognises that by her life within the home, woman gives to the State a support without which the common good cannot be achieved.”

Article 41.2.2° “The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home.”

 

[Unicron]

Don't you use the Thumped off shore?

You're in for a shock once you discover that the thumped off shore is a hole in the ground in Pete's garden.

 

[GO]

You have to read the other posts rather than continually repeating the same question sexy Gandalf.

Ignore the women in the home bit
It's the detail in the position of care being state/family responisibilty that all us boring people with disabilities keep harping on about.

Lookit:



being replaced by



So looking past the gender part - what it's doing in terms of care is removing

" not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home"

So that's a nice loophole to have no legal basis to support carers.

Further on that end

replacing 'ensure' with 'strive'.

I can ensure this post is written, or I can strive to finish it, in which case it may not be finished.

Maybe it's easy for me to see this difference because I'm a state dependent adult with a chronic pain condition?

Example: A friend of mine has a child who will be dependent for life due to their condition. Once the parents are out of the picture that kid is in the hands of whatever family are left over under the new wording, or if the family have all died too, then we need to have a state system in place to be decent society. This new wording is putting that in legal doubt.

Yeah this "Strive" stuff is sketchy af

 

[egg_]

It's no more sketchy than the old wording! @ann post is misquoting the old one!

 

[egg_]

I think the citizenry and other residents of the state are to varying degrees the state's responsibility yes

I think the "varying degrees" thing is the key here.

Am I (and Mrs. egg_) reponsible for our kids? Yes we are.

If we were poor (or dead) do I think the State ought to help pay to raise them? Yes, absolutely - and everybody thinks that, even Leo Varadkar.

And guess what - the State does! What people actually don't agree on is how good that help is right now, and how much money to spend on helping.

 

[egg_]

Oh and btw I get the UN protocol stuff - it just really seems to me to be a separate thing to this referendum

 

[ann post]

It's no more sketchy than the old wording! @ann post is misquoting the old one!

What about the ecomonic necessity bit then, what is the societal improvement in removing that?

The new wording is watery compared to the old one.

The UN stuff removes the right of appeal if the state is failing in its disability care. People want it in there so the state can be accountable, rather than striving. If it was to go in somewhere, it'd be in this part of the constitution.

 

[Anthony]

You’re still allowed to tell people they’re wrong though.

100% correct. I just don't have the energy to argue and I found a nice way out. Plus, it changed the subject in the room where I sensed discomfort.

 

[pete]

You're in for a shock once you discover that the thumped off shore is a hole in the ground in Pete's garden.

We don’t talk about the hole in the garden.

 

[pete]

100% correct. I just don't have the energy to argue and I found a nice way out. Plus, it changed the subject in the room where I sensed discomfort.

I actually think that kind of conversation is a disaster in the workplace and should be avoided at all costs in the first place.

 

[Unicron]

I think the "varying degrees" thing is the key here.

Yeah it probably is, I'm not calling for fully automated luxury communism where everyone gets a tesla if they want one but according to social justice Ireland there's 13% of the population living in poverty, between a quarter and a third of that are kids. It's a better figure than the UK, which is famously fucked, actually higher than the US and a lot worse than Switzerland. I don't see why we should genuinely strive or endevour or even try to get that figure closer to the Swiss, and at least do better than the yanks who's society has a fundamental component of bootstrap pulling/letting people sink or swim.

 

[Kermit McDermott]

Still don't know on this...not massively interested tbh, but will make some sort of decision and vote.

 

[Unicron]

We don’t talk about the hole in the garden.

I thought it was the other hole that we had to keep quiet about. The one where you put all the quitters.

 

[pete]

I thought it was the other hole that we had to keep quiet about. The one where you put all the quitters.

We don’t talk about the patio.

 

[nuke terrorist]

France makes abortion a constitutional right in historic Versailles vote

Eiffel Tower lit up to mark change, seen as way of protecting law that decriminalised abortion in 1975

www.theguardian.com

Yesterday both houses of French parliament voted by 9:1 to put right to abortion in French constitution which was a world first.
Leftist MP Mathilde Panot proposed the bill.
Macron could have had a referendum or parliamentary vote and went for the latter.
Even Front National did NOT kick up much of a fuss in the end.

Sorry for going off piste but thought this was relevant.

 

[nuke terrorist]

We don’t talk about the patio.

It's OK Bryan Murray is still alive

 

[Unicron]

France makes abortion a constitutional right in historic Versailles vote

Eiffel Tower lit up to mark change, seen as way of protecting law that decriminalised abortion in 1975

www.theguardian.com

Yesterday both houses of French parliament voted by 9:1 to put right to abortion in French constitution which was a world first.
Leftist MP Mathilde Panot proposed the bill.
Macron could have had a referendum or parliamentary vote and went for the latter.
Even Front National did kick up much of a fuss in the end.

Sorry for going off piste but thought this was relevant.

Apparently South African twitter went into overdrive yesterday correcting the suggestion that France did it first. A good development in any case.

 

[nuke terrorist]

Apparently South African twitter went into overdrive yesterday correcting the suggestion that France did it first. A good development in any case.

1996? Ratified in 1997.

Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Act, 1996 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[therealjohnny]

It's OK Bryan Murray is still alive

NIce to see he is still active despite his illness

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[ann post]

‘The care amendment and single issue feminism’

Siobhán Mullally is Established Professor of Human Rights Law, and Director of the Irish Centre for Human Rights at the School of Law, University of Galway. – In reflecting on the upcoming ‘care re…

ichrgalway.org