Fuck Religion (5 Viewers)

[Kermit McDermott]

Re: the full time job & mortgage point.
I've always wanted to own my own place outright & 22 years later I'm close to it.
I don't want to be at the mercy of any landlord, vulture fund or county council deciding to increase rent or telling me i have to move out because they are selling the place. Having that worry, especially as you get older. Fuck that.
I don't like going to work, never have, but I don't want to be on social welfare either. If you have a legitimate reasons for being on benefits that's fine, but I don't. I would be just leeching off the system, I couldn't feel good about doing that. If you want to achieve anything compromises unfortunately have to be made.

 

[nuke terrorist]

You seem to have a more conservative outlook than most catholics.

Why?
I find it odd people that can't explain why they did something life changing but that's just me.
If you are not willing to explain then maybe just drop this.

 

[nuke terrorist]

Re: the full time job & mortgage point.
I've always wanted to own my own place outright & 22 years later I'm close to it.
I don't want to be at the mercy of any landlord, vulture fund or county council deciding to increase rent or telling me i have to move out because they are selling the place. Having that worry, especially as you get older. Fuck that.
I don't like going to work, never have, but I don't want to be on social welfare either. If you have a legitimate reasons for being on benefits that's fine, but I don't. I would be just leeching off the system, I couldn't feel good about doing that. If you want to achieve anything compromises unfortunately have to be made.

Thank you for your explanation and I appreciate you writing this. I understand you much better now. If more people communicated like this I'd be able to make more sense of world. Cheers.
Glad you are nearly done with this.

 

[ann post]

Why?
I find it odd people that can't explain why they did something life changing but that's just me.
If you are not willing to explain then maybe just drop this.

It's odder that you think people shouldn't. You aren't the moral centre of the world, the onus is on you to justify your conservatism, not for me to justify the behaviour of most of society in ireland

 

[nuke terrorist]

It's odder that you think people shouldn't. You aren't the moral centre of the world, the onus is on you to justify your conservatism, not for me to justify the behaviour of most of society in ireland

I think Irish people in general are far more socially and politically conservative than me.
But if you mean conservative in terms of not taking big risks then that is true.

You are perfectly entitled to ignore me.

 

[ann post]

I think Irish people in general are far more socially and politically conservative than me.
But if you mean conservative in terms of not taking big risks then that is true.

You are perfectly entitled to ignore me.

I'm not ignoring you, i'm talking to you

Anhywhoo you want me to butt out of the conversation rather than you have to justify your conservatism from the looks of it.

 

[nuke terrorist]

I'm not ignoring you, i'm talking to you

Anhywhoo you want me to butt out of the conversation rather than you have to justify your conservatism from the looks of it.

What do you mean by conservatism?
I am not right wing conservative.

Anyhow ann post, being open with ya, when a conversation goes this direction the probable outcomes are -

1) people ignore me and the conversation just ends.
2) conversation continues but I expect people to put the same effort in to it as I feel I have.

Unfortunately I will admit that if people keep interacting with me unless we come to some respectful understanding then it might end up continuing until everyone else quits.
That is just being open with you. Next time you see me going in a 'conservative(!)' direction you'll have a better idea what I am likely to do.

Anyway lots of stuff in life is daft and I will have to deal with that until I snuff it.

 

[magicbastarder]

Someone living on the dole in council housing has a far better life than someone with a mortgage IMO. Living with yer folks is a better option too.

People generally interact with capitalism more than they are forced too.
Capitalism is many times worse than religion obviously.
You didn't address other points I made such as people who got mortgages in 2000's not doing their homework.

I suspect on that first point you and I are not going to see eye to eye, and I suspect I'm with most others on thumped. Especially with a statement as bald as 'being on the dole is far better than having a mortgage'.

And I know this is in danger of chest beating 'I'm a taxpayer' territory, but making a choice to live on the dole is a choice to leech off the work of others.

Most people wouldn't be able to live on the dole, not by choice in a long term sense. I know I wouldn't. People want a sense of purpose, they want to know they've contributed something. And they want to indulge their interests, many of which can't be paid for out of the dole.

 

[magicbastarder]

Anyone is welcome to criticise me if it is based on fact or opinion. Go ahead, I have no issue with that.

maybe i'm reading the context of your meaning wrong, but do you mean criticise *you* or criticise your opinions? because people don't want to criticise you. no one here (to the best of my knowledge) has told you the way you've lived your life is mistaken, and an 'it's alright, you can criticise me too' does not mean people will want to suddenly start doing so. 'hey i punched you, so you can punch me back' is not a zero sum game.

(that comment is posted in the context of you having said to AP 'you need to learn from your mistakes' which, if it did not mean you think his life choices were mistakes, was badly worded).

 

[hydromancer]

I suspect on that first point you and I are not going to see eye to eye, and I suspect I'm with most others on thumped. Especially with a statement as bald as 'being on the dole is far better than having a mortgage'.

And I know this is in danger of chest beating 'I'm a taxpayer' territory, but making a choice to live on the dole is a choice to leech off the work of others.

Most people wouldn't be able to live on the dole, not by choice in a long term sense. I know I wouldn't. People want a sense of purpose, they want to know they've contributed something. And they want to indulge their interests, many of which can't be paid for out of the dole.

Well anyone receiving welfare also pays tax you know for example if they a bus ticket or anything else. PAYE is only one source of tax and even then anyone who is employed is only taxed on a part of there income. Calling welfare a choice is a moot point maybe there is a debate that anyone can find work if they really want to but it is shame I think to attach certain labels on to people. I suppose another model is a "Universal basic income" which would be another discussion.
It's a sort of time verses money conundrum and you can waste both. It's maybe cliche to say it but money certainly is not everything either. Although there can obviously be benefits to working which are not just financial. Social welfare allowance for the most part is just going to circulate in the economy anyway.

 

[ann post]

If nobody got mortgages then we'd live in a landlord monopoly
If nobody drank beers there would be no venues and not many gigs that aren't mass.
If nobody has unprotected sex then we'd b'é extinct.

Your moral system that you are criticising me with would wipe out your own Lifestyle.

Stop throwing this on other people.

 

[nuke terrorist]

maybe i'm reading the context of your meaning wrong, but do you mean criticise *you* or criticise your opinions? because people don't want to criticise you. no one here (to the best of my knowledge) has told you the way you've lived your life is mistaken, and an 'it's alright, you can criticise me too' does not mean people will want to suddenly start doing so. 'hey i punched you, so you can punch me back' is not a zero sum game.

(that comment is posted in the context of you having said to AP 'you need to learn from your mistakes' which, if it did not mean you think his life choices were mistakes, was badly worded).

I said a bunch of mundane stuff things had no value which prompted the subsequent conversation.

As far being on for 29 years benefit goes. It was obvious as a teen because of things that I described in a long post on the previous page, that society wasn't offering me much. I realised I going to have to selfish at times because no one was offering me anything other than hard work + survival.

I never go on holidays, 100 euro phone, can't drive, cheap clothes, no relationships etc. etc. nothing wrong with that it's all grand.

Not connected random comments -
If I behaved badly or have done shit things in my life I would think I would admit it and learn.
If you don't follow conventions then yer almost discriminated against - I think atheists will understand this.

Actually If I was not on psychiatric medication which has side effects, I would be prepared to work 20 hours a week for the same income and benefits I have now (no extra income). I would have to get to choose a solitary manual job.
But I might not be able for it or might decide I am not enjoying my life anymore. So who knows. I would certainly want the right to stop.

This about the 5th time I said this on thumped but-
If had no job and my three luxuries where - my own bedroom, a computer or phone with good internet and a good pair of runners for walking, I'd still be happy with that.

If nobody got mortgages then we'd live in a landlord monopoly
If nobody drank beers there would be no venues and not many gigs that aren't mass.
If nobody has unprotected sex then we'd b'é extinct.

Your moral system that you are criticising me with would wipe out your own Lifestyle.

Stop throwing this on other people.

Wouldn't it be great if I didn't exist!
People are going to die out soon sadly.

I went to two gigs in my life until I was 33 so it is not essential. Gone to about 60+ now.
Thanks for responding ann post. Good on you.

Not much more to be said on all this or is there?

 

[ann post]

I said a bunch of mundane stuff things had no value which prompted the subsequent conversation.

I think it was a bit more like telling me i need to learn from my mistakes, those were your words right?

Anywhoo your approach to this is pretty religious all told. You outline a moral code, you tell other people they are doing it wrong, and when asked to justify it you clammed up. Saying either i should leave the conversation or your dont want to talk about it. Burke much?

Wouldn't it be great if I didn't exist!

Those were your ideas, all i did was bring them to a logical conclusion, don't put it on me.

 

[egg_]

I never go on holidays, 100 euro phone, can't drive, cheap clothes, no relationships etc. etc. nothing wrong with that it's all grand

Somebody made the cheap clothes you are wearing. Somebody made your EUR100 phone, somebody mined the lithium for its battery, somebody runs the power station that charges your battery, somebody built the infrastructure that allows you to connect to the internet to post what you said above.

Somebody taught you to read and write

Somebody manufactures the medication you are on. Somebody built the house you live in. Somebody grew the food you eat, somebody drove it to the supermarket, someone packed it, someone sold it.

You're sitting on the internet shouting "LOOK AT ALL THE FOOLS WORKING" when everything that makes your life possible is provided by the fools working, and you don't have to do anything in return.

I like you dude, and I think you contribute a lot to thumped, but I don't like when you do that

 

[nuke terrorist]

Somebody made the cheap clothes you are wearing. Somebody made your EUR100 phone, somebody mined the lithium for its battery, somebody runs the power station that charges your battery, somebody built the infrastructure that allows you to connect to the internet to post what you said above.

Somebody taught you to read and write

Somebody manufactures the medication you are on. Somebody built the house you live in. Somebody grew the food you eat, somebody drove it to the supermarket, someone packed it, someone sold it.

You're sitting on the internet shouting "LOOK AT ALL THE FOOLS WORKING" when everything that makes your life possible is provided by the fools working, and you don't have to do anything in return.

I like you dude, and I think you contribute a lot to thumped, but I don't like when you do th

I obviously have compassion for people but it is graduated. The vulnerable get most of it e.g. Bangladeshi folks who made probably some of the clothes I am wearing.

I think about where everything I consume comes from much more than most people. If you know how to source lithium ethically please let me know.

I only got a phone because I needed it to open a bank account.
I respect anyone who is independent and even more so if they do something worthwhile.
I had two jobs that were fundamentally wrong and not worthwhile respectively.

My original point was lots of things are as pointless as religion and the relationship, family, house, mortgage lifestyle was my target.
Working shorter hours without being tied to debt would be grand.

I made lots of other points and they were mostly ignored.

I wouldn't last a few months if I had to be completely independent and I said that since I was at school. I am an untalented loser and what I am supposed to do? It is neither good or bad but I don't make it worse for myself. My faults are obvious but I admit them. I am OK with that.

If you've got any suggestions. I am open to hearing them.

The teacher who taught me to read and write was a thug.
I often walk 7 miles to the supermarket. Carrying shopping 7 miles is hard though. I just walked 7 miles this morning.
Take care egg.

 

[egg_]

If you've got any suggestions. I am open to hearing them.

I have two

1) stop calling the people who provide you with everything fools

2) try to appreciate that it's impossible to see the point of most things without ever having done them ... can you imagine explaining to someone who'd never listened to music what the "point" of music is? It's similarly impossible for me to explain to you the "point" of sex, or dancing, or falling in love

 

[nuke terrorist]

I have two

1) stop calling the people who provide you with everything fools

2) try to appreciate that it's impossible to see the point of most things without ever having done them ... can you imagine explaining to someone who'd never listened to music what the "point" of music is? It's similarly impossible for me to explain to you the "point" of sex, or dancing, or falling in love

I said "foolish" if I am not mistaken. Different from calling someone a fool. Foolish and risky are interchangeable to me. So risky it is if that is what you want.

I often think about how much I love music and the effect it has on me. But I usually think about deaf folks when I say those things and say "with respect" to the deaf community. They often have loud music at their events - the vibes!

Now being deaf isn't voluntarily and the other things you mentioned are (with consent).
Dancing is OK sometimes.
I am happy where I am unless someone has a better suggestion.

If an Irish person is making a 100 times what someone earned who made something they consumed is more the question, I think.

If someone an independent person takes risks and they don't work out, such is life. They don't want my sympathy anyway. They will just keep going. I have nothing else to fall back on. So I'll keep on keepin' on, unless someone has a better suggestion.

Seeing people en mass doing things I don't understand and they can't explain, isn't that hard to get my incomprehension either?
Read the long post I wrote about on previous page. I speak about my friends and their kids - they are doing really well.

I got up early today and wrote a letter to my nephew too!

 

[nuke terrorist]

As regards music, love, football, alcohol, gigs, drugs, travel, cars, fiction books, sex, internet forums and anything else, they are only important if you think they are. Only you can decide.

 

[nuke terrorist]

I was going to post a BUZZCOCKS song here to lighten the mood and when I typed in the title this came up.

https://www.google.com/search?q=i+dont+know+what+to+do+with+my+life&oq=i+dont+know+what+to+do+with+my+life&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQABgKGIAEMgkIAhAAGAoYgAQyCQgDEAAYChiABDIJCAQQABgKGIAEMgkIBRAAGAoYgAQyCQgGEAAYChiABDIJCAcQABgKGIAEMgkICBAAGAoYgAQyCQgJEAAYChiABDIJCAoQABgKGIAEMgkICxAAGAoYgAQyCQgMEAAYChiABDIJCA0QABgKGIAEMgkIDhAAGAoYgATSAQkyMDc1OGowajeoAgCwAgA&client=ms-android-xiaomi-terr2-rso2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Something similar happens with SUICIDAL TENDENCIES on YouTube.
I shot Reagan, I shot the Pope.

OK I better go and do some house cleaning.

 

[egg_]

I said "foolish" if I am not mistaken. Different from calling someone a fool.

Not that different. "All these people who, by their labour, make my life worth living/possible are foolish" is not a kind thing to say