Sexism, god help us (3 Viewers)

[7 - No tomorrow]

How can you be so sure?



Oh come come. Are you being serious? So that means all we have to do is be morally right and eventually all will be well with the world? What about the dramatic downturn in women's rights and human rights in Iran? What about how things are going for gay rights in Russia?

As serious as cancer.

In civilized society that's how it has been successful.
That's why we have gay football players, female CEOs and a black president.
You change attitudes with ideas.

 

[nooleen]

How can you be so sure?

well people did keep records of what happened

 

[egg_]

In civilized society that's how it has been successful.

So it only works in civilized society?

 

[Lili Marlene]

How can you be so sure?



Oh come come. Are you being serious? So that means all we have to do is be morally right and eventually all will be well with the world? What about the dramatic downturn in women's rights and human rights in Iran? What about how things are going for gay rights in Russia?

Yes, we should definitely give up on womens rights because things have gone wrong in Iran. That's it, movement over. Women should have all their rights removed. @pete, please disable @nooly's account.

I arrived at the throwing-hands-in-the-air part by engaging in it ("it" being politics in general not women's rights specifically)

I tried to figure it out and I failed. I can't see any relationship between my actions (or anyone's actions, with a few exceptions) and outcomes. That's not the same as saying "it doesn't matter"

Try again. Keep trying. Keep trying till you die. There is no answer and there never will be. Things will never be completely fixed, stop thinking they can be. Keep trying. Choose Life. Wear Sunscreen. Get Lucky. Born Slippy.

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

How can you be so sure?



Oh come come. Are you being serious? So that means all we have to do is be morally right and eventually all will be well with the world? What about the dramatic downturn in women's rights and human rights in Iran? What about how things are going for gay rights in Russia?

You seem to have very clear views on certain matters but run to the internet in bewilderment when words like 'feminism' or 'gender' are used.

 

[Cormcolash]

What's wrong with being sexy?

 

[Space]

So in the final analysis, the fact that Man United get more coverage than the Man United women's team in the papers is a symptom of the same evils that imprisons a large percentage of black men - people wrongly think the men's team are better and the women's team are a danger to society in general.

How come you didn't say Man United men's team instead of just Man United?

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

What's wrong with being sexy?

From experience, it's mostly upside.

 

[egg_]

You seem to have very clear views on certain matters but run to the internet in bewilderment when words like 'feminism' or 'gender' are used.

Correct. Maybe by means of discussions like this one I'll eventually arrive at very clear views of those things too

 

[Moods For Mallards]

How come you didn't say Man United men's team instead of just Man United?

I'm just using the commonly used terms, don't blame me. Men's football teams don't usually have a signifier. Women's do. The only exception I can think of is USMNT & USWNT, and that's presumably due to the strength of women's football in the States.

 

[egg_]

Yes, we should definitely give up on womens rights because things have gone wrong in Iran. That's it, movement over. Women should have all their rights removed.

Ah ffs, I seem to have gotten everyone's back up. This is why I kept it off facebook

We should give up on the idea that an unimpeachable moral argument changes anything. Saying "because it's morally right" is worse than saying "because it's biology". At least biology can actually be measured

 

[egg_]

And yes, I'm unconvinced about "movements". How do you know movements aren't a symptom of changing attitudes rather than a cause?

 

[nooleen]

so what caused the changing attitudes? biology?

 

[Moods For Mallards]

And yes, I'm unconvinced about "movements". How do you know movements aren't a symptom of changing attitudes rather than a cause?

Are you saying it's a chicken and _egg situation?

 

[nooleen]

egg_
the _ came after the egg

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

Ah ffs, I seem to have gotten everyone's back up. This is why I kept it off facebook

We should give up on the idea that an unimpeachable moral argument changes anything. Saying "because it's morally right" is worse than saying "because it's biology". At least biology can actually be measured

Hold on.

An unimpeachable argument has been made for marriage equality and we see what that has brought.
This is how it works.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Ah ffs, I seem to have gotten everyone's back up. This is why I kept it off facebook

sorry egg_, bit of frustration

We should give up on the idea that an unimpeachable moral argument changes anything. Saying "because it's morally right" is worse than saying "because it's biology". At least biology can actually be measured

I agree there is no such thing as an unimpeachable moral argument and I would never say "because it's morally right", although others might. Biology is just a tool that can be used to aid your arguments. It's as close to possible to objective evidence, that you then use for your subjective purposes.

Now... eh... what's the discussion again?

 

[egg_]

so what caused the changing attitudes? biology?

Economics? Religion? Globalisation? Interaction with other cultures?
Victory/defeat in war? Environmental disaster? I dunno how these things come about, but there's plenty of other shit going on in the world apart from talking

 

[washingcattle]

Now... eh... what's the discussion again?

It was women's sports now it seems to be the power of political ideology vs biology.

I said lock thread ages ago.

 

[nooleen]

Economics? Religion? Globalisation? Interaction with other cultures?
Victory/defeat in war? Environmental disaster? I dunno how these things come about, but there's plenty of other shit going on in the world apart from talking

if you don't know how these things come about, why are you categorically denying everyone's suggestions on this thread?